You can “malinger” — fake — virtually any mental disorder, because mental illness is defined by symptom lists that are self-reported. That is, you tell the doctor or therapist the symptoms you’re experiencing, and they simply go down the list and figure out which disorder the symptoms best fit into. Since the symptoms are self-reported, you can easily make up the symptoms to qualify for whatever diagnosis you want.
In medicine, things are a bit different. Although doctors might use your self-reported symptoms as a starting point on how to diagnose the medical problem you present with, they can usually followup by ordering a series of laboratory tests to confirm their diagnosis. There is no equivalent for mental health concerns (although there are many paper-and-pencil psychological tests have very good validity when it comes to differential diagnoses; these, however, are rarely used in daily practice).
So when I come across an article like this Associated Press one — talking about how some soldiers may be faking post-traumatic stress syndrome (PTSD) in order to gain benefits — it makes me cringe a little.
Are there people who try and game the system? Sure, there will always be such people. But they exist in any population. The real questions to be asked by such an article should be: Are more doing it now than before? If so, why? And what can be done to stop it?
No one knows the full extent of PTSD fraud. But there have been some hints.
A 1990 law allows the Veterans Benefits Administration to crosscheck its rosters with federal tax and Social Security databases to find “unemployable” veterans reporting work-related income. In 2004, this program identified 8,846 such veterans who reported at least $6,000 in earnings, including 289 with income of $50,000 or more.
Hints are nice, but data are even better. Are these people “unemployable” because of physical disability, or mental disability? An important distinction, given this article is apparently about how “easy” it is to fake PTSD. The article doesn’t say.
This sounds more like an accounting oversight issue than anything else — How come the government isn’t asking these 8,846 veterans about this income and how it was earned when they were supposedly “unemployable”? That’s the real question and the only answer is “lack of resources and personnel to do so.” Right. We have resources to track down tax cheats, so why not these folks?
The article is surprisingly pretty thin on any actual research data, but full of those juicy anecdotes that make for good story-telling. We love a good story as much as the next person, but when it comes to implicating an entire population — U.S. soldiers who serve their country — we’d like to see a little more hard data and a little less of those juicy stories that make it sound like this is an out-of-control problem amongst veterans.
Already, VA officials are legally bound to resolve “any reasonable doubt” in the veteran’s favor. And Rogers, the retired claims specialist, and others say the system is vulnerable to fraud because of the way it was designed: Doctors make diagnoses without fact-checking the veteran’s story, and once that diagnosis is made, claims raters’ hands are essentially tied.
Since when did a doctor become an investigator, responsible for fact-checking a soldier’s story? That hardly seems an appropriate responsibility for a doctor in the VA system. It also seems silly that when evidence shows the soldier to be lying, nothing can be done. A dishonorable soldier who has no trouble lying would seem to be one you wouldn’t want to be honoring with unearned income.
The system is clearly broken. But this article does little to help us understand this problem in context. Out of the 1.6 million troops who served, we’re talking about a known 8,846 problem individuals — or 0.55 percent. Is this an epidemic? Who knows, again, the article gives little clue as to whether these are numbers are cause for serious concern or not.
Malingering is hard to detect, even by well-trained professionals. Malingering is always going to be an issue when you tie a monetary reward to a specific diagnosis. If you disconnect the direct monetary incentive from the diagnosis, I suspect you’ll find far less malingering going on. And there needs to be an intermediary step of fact-checking in there, as well as serious repercussions for lying about one’s symptoms.
Read the full article: In tide of new PTSD cases, fear of growing fraud
38 comments
“Malingering” can occur in several conditions, yet not always for monetary gain. Sometimes it is the patient’s lack of knowledge of the true nature of their condition and fraud perpetrated by the professional for monetary gain. As quoted by Curtis P. Clogston, J.D., M.D. quotes regarding doctors and malpractice –
“Doctors are taught in medical school that patients become dependent and childlike when they are ill and depend on their doctors unreasonably. Some doctors will even take advantage of this tendency to promote themselves. You must avoid this dependency – only by being in control of your own health care will you avoid being a victim and assure yourself of getting the best treatment possible.â€
I have heard of several doctors who claim to their patients, “Once you have a mood disorder, any emotion – good, sad, irritable or angry is symptomatic of the illness. People with mental illnesses are incapable of “normal” human emotions. In a case like this, the person who is concerned because a child returns home extremely late, excited over winning a prize, or saddened by the loss of a pet, or irritated by poor customer service feels compelled to report these emotions as directed by the doctor, while indeed, these ARE normal responses that do not require treatment. These patients would not be guilty of “malingering” but rather, not listening to the sage advice that “Those you trust the most can steal the most.†~ Lawrence Lief
Fraud is a two-way street. Psychiatrists should bone up on what they learned in medical school so to be capable of discerning between BP disease and menopause or depression and thyroid disease. If they were responsible for a bit more than writing prescriptions, they might take better note of whether a patient is lying or not. Even police are trained in non-verbal cues of lying.
Additionally, the men and women who return from war may or may not have continuing PTSD, but unless you have actively served on a front line, watched your buddy be shot down right next to you, their suffering should not be disrespected as simply a ploy for monetary gain. They deserve much better than our government offers for their efforts.
“Malingering” can occur in several conditions, yet not always for monetary gain. Sometimes it is the patient’s lack of knowledge of the true nature of their condition and fraud perpetrated by the professional for monetary gain. As quoted by Curtis P. Clogston, J.D., M.D. quotes regarding doctors and malpractice –
“Doctors are taught in medical school that patients become dependent and childlike when they are ill and depend on their doctors unreasonably. Some doctors will even take advantage of this tendency to promote themselves. You must avoid this dependency – only by being in control of your own health care will you avoid being a victim and assure yourself of getting the best treatment possible.â€
I have heard of several doctors who claimed to their patients, “Once you have a mood disorder, any emotion – good, sad, irritable or angry is symptomatic of the illness. People with mental disorders are incapable of “normal” human emotions. In a case like this, the person who is concerned because a child returns home extremely late, excited over winning a prize, or saddened by the loss of a pet, or irritated by poor customer service feels compelled to report these emotions as directed by the doctor, while indeed, these ARE normal responses that do not require treatment. These patients would not be guilty of “malingering” but rather, not listening to the sage advice that “Those you trust the most can steal the most.†~ Lawrence Lief
Fraud is a two-way street. Psychiatrists should bone up on what they learned in medical school so to be capable of discerning between BP disease and menopause or depression and thyroid disease. If they were responsible for a bit more than writing prescriptions, they might take better note of whether a patient is lying or not. Even police are trained in non-verbal cues of lying.
Additionally, the men and women who return from war may or may not have continuing PTSD, but unless you have actively served on a front line, watched your buddy be shot down right next to you, their suffering should not be disrespected as simply a ploy for monetary gain. They deserve much better than our government offers for their efforts.
Blaming the Veteran. Some things never change. I wrote about this insidious charge in 2006 and it seems to be rearing its ugly head once again:
http://www.epluribusmedia.org/features/20060206PTSD_intro.html
Are there malingerers? Yep. You bet. And any clinician with any chops can see right through it. The biggest lie in this AP story is how easy it is to fake PTSD. A more salient story for the AP might be how many people “fake” psychiatric and physical disability” during a Recession. Many docs will fill out the paperwork (or have a staffer do it) just to get the patient off his/her back. It is remarkably “easy” though it takes forever to finalize.
I sure wish the press would stop beating up the joint forces of the military. I have not seen ONE story about how our Citizen Soldiers return from combat only to find that their jobs (presumed by many to be safely held for them after their deployment) have disappeared. Lets talk about newly homeless combat veterans who have barely had boots back on the ground stateside, yet they are living in their cars because the “elevator clause” allowed their jobs to be eliminated while they were deployed due to the extraordinary economic conditions. Nope–not Jerry Springer-worthy. It is better to shame, blame, malign and slime the veteran. Apparently blaming the veteran has sexier journalistic “legs”.
Dr. Grohol’s article (which neatly dissected the AP story) and the comments by DE Ford, LCSW and Susan are right on target. Soldiers who serve are country live through trauma most of us can’t even imagine. It sounds like the AP reporter had a preconceived notion and slid over the facts. Those who serve in the armed forces keep us safe, and protect our rights, even our right to malign them.
I do readjustment counseling for the VA as a contractor. The VA does not grant a claim based only the diagnosis of a therapist: They attempt to verify the PTSD stressor(s). Some military jobs (MOS), such as medic or grave registrations are inherently traumatic. Other jobs often require some kind evidence, such as medals, buddy letters, etc. I have seen veterans who have PTSD denied claims because their official military jobs didn’t entail combat, yet they found themselves in combat due to circumstance or to undocumented temporary duty.
The AP writer doesn’t know what he is talking about.
“It sounds like the AP reporter had a preconceived notion and slid over the facts.”
I have to strongly concur with the above sentiment from Richard & C.R. Zwolinski.
In fact, two articles are making their way across the Veterans, Active Duty troop, and Military Family Community.
Associated Press spreading RUMORs about PTSD fakers http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/05/07/the-associated-press-spreading-fear-among-military-veterans/
AND
PTSD is Real, PTSD Fraud is Not – Veterans rebuttal to AP http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/05/09/ptsd-is-real-ptsd-fraud-is-not-veterans-rebuttal-to-ap/
With our contacts in the House and Senate Veterans Affairs Committees, we at Veterans Today News Network have joined with the Veterans Service Organization – Veterans for Common Sense (VCS) with its own in-house Mental Health and Legal expertise to demand that either AP retract the article or clarify that it is exclusively an Opinion piece by the two AP reporters promoting views they share with others as NEWS.
This is not to say that like Medicaid or Medicare claims, Social Security Claims or name it there are NO Veterans who do not game the system. However basing only three examples of Veterans caught in the Act, and the selective opinions of Mental Health professionals (well almost professionals) is just too skimpy and weak evidence to make the claim that a significant number of Veterans are faking it for the money.
Even this article selectively uses the inference and lead in that Certain Veterans instead of the factual FEW Veterans do this.
That said, the hostile, negative attitude toward America’s Veterans who use the VA for whatever reason is nothing new as Mr. Ford mentions above. In fact the myth that Veterans were faking it began during and shortly after the Vietnam War instigated by a Pentagon who needed more bodies for combat, an Older Veterans community (WWII) hostile to younger Vietnam Vets, and a Mental Illness vaguely understood.
However, most of the resistance to recognizing PTSD in returning Veterans was political and financial in essence. The fiscal cost to take care of broken Veterans was a higher priority than the Total Cost of War.
Circa 1994, another mainstream media outlet promoted a similar argument based on more opinions and views of Mental Health professionals working within the VA system stigmatizing homeless Veterans as malingerers,
I personally believe that more Mental Health professionals outside of Pentagon control should be sent into and experience traumatic combat positions in let’s say a medical draft.
Most Veterans Service Organizations are going to fight the opinions of Mental Health professionals who use returning Veterans as guinea pigs without walking the walk.
Accidently came across this article when looking for suggestions for careers for people with ptsd. This makes me sad, of course some cases might be fake, but many aren’t. Even if half were faking, the amount of money spent on these people couldn’t even shed light on the amount spent on various social welfare programs for people who simply refuse to work and don’t even claim to have a disability. Personally I find that working on the big problems before the minor ones tends to work a little bit better in my life. The article specifically suggests $6000 as significant income, individual unemployability isnt just for those who can’t get a job its also for those who can’t get one which makes enough to survive off of.
Enough of the monetary concerns about the article, mostly because I am tired and ready to try and sleep tonight. What actually makes me sad about this article is it seems that the author is just another person thinks poorly about the people who served to protect his freedom. I truly hate people like him, but it is the reality of the matter. The peace that we bleed for is only enjoyed by those who can’t understand and don’t appreciate us.
You JC are so right> I got accused of fraud on my PTSD claim today by a VA counciler . He has no clue of my emotions and split second experences.
This man was disfunctional as a VA rep. What he did was open up another can of worms in my disorter issues. I make a full report on him at VA after this happened. 2/28/13
I would also like to add being an Iraq veteran that PTSD is looked upon as a weakness within the unit. Many soldiers who truely suffer try their best to hide it so they do not look weak within the unit. I am one of those people, reputation within the Infantry is without a doubt more important than your personal issues, even if it is as dangerous as severe PTSD.
I have personal knowledge of a guy faking ptsd, in fact he brags about it. his truck is littered with vietnam crap, stickers, slogens, ect. (yet its so painful to remember? yeah right) he was originally given 70% dis. but after being “coached” by his lawyer and learning the “right” answers to give and switching doc’s till he found the right one, he was given 100%. this creep is not only stealing from the taxpayer, but is also stealing the funds and care needed by those poor troops who are truley entitled to the resources available. and not only is he drinking from the V.A. teet, he also gets social security automatically. soon our elderly will be working into thier 90’s. why isnt there a review done every so often with high trained (differant) doctor’s who can catch these people and why isnt there a hot-line to call if you know of someone faking?
You are 100% correct. My soon to be ex husband has FAKED the system for years. I never saw him have a (Flash Back), (A bad Dream), (He loves Asians) and he (enjoys Fire Works) I believe there are MANY Fakers of PTSD just so they can get a Government check and never have to work. So many times vets feel they are (owed) by the government for the rest of their life because they served a yr in the Military. My ex even claims he is disabled and I have seen him mow lawns, wash windows, wash his car, run on a treadmill, load and unload moving trucks but yet he claims he has PTSD and is disabled. He is taking/stealing from the Country he claims to have “Served” He was not drafted to Nam, he went on his own. I guess he heard of the hookers over there and the benefits he could get by manipulating the system.
Yes these Fakers need to be put in their place.
Read your posting and have a similar situation within family. makes me sick to think someone who is deserving will be cheated out of a benefit when person I know is “faking” so he can get out of deployment and then get paid the rest of his life so he can play on computer and sit on his butt.
I had the pleasure of spending time in a VA Hospital when my WWII Veteran father was applying for a Veterans Pension. He was approved but never collected a dime after a more than 2 year wait due to his death. While at the VA, I watched several guys walk briskly from their cars to the entrance, and then suddenly become disabled, barely able to make it to their seats and apparently in gruesome pain. I was in Viet Nam in 1971/72. We did not have cell phones, Skype, email, etc. The explosions and gore were real then too. A few guys went crazy. Many came home with flashbacks and many would react to loud noises. Most got over it., in time. Today, everyone is looking for a government check. I think a high % of PTSS cases are faking it for the money.
Hi Joan,
My current soon to be fiance is the same. How could I stop him?
Thanks,
April
GS
Read up on your facts Social Security is judged by different standards then VA,Its a totaly seperate entity and must be applied for and certain crateria must be ment it is NOT automatic.It sound more like something personal between you and this person,and just because you have PTSD doesnt mean your not proud of your sevice in Vietnam .Try going to a Vietnam Veterans Reunion sometime. Many there have PTSD but still have what you call Vietnam crap on thier Hats Autos Motorcycles etc.Sounds like you need to get a life
ooops, looks like I’ve outed another one. and yes I DO have issue with frauds. And by the by I’ve got a life and it isn’t costing the tax payer a dime.
The way to contact the VA OIG to report suspected fraud is here:
http://www4.va.gov/oig/contacts/hotline.asp
Other than symptom validity testing (which realistically can be debated in court) there is NO sure fire way to disprove symptoms. PTSD is probably the most easily malingered diagnosis (in the context of it’s politically charged nature anyway). The fact is that anyone can claim PTSD — there are no blood tests or x-rays to confirm the diagnosis. I don’t think the government makes decisions lightly either when they deny someone a PTSD diagnosis– particularly due to the highly politically charged nature of PTSD. From what I’ve seen most of the soldiers that get worked up over this stuff have a long history of issues with their command and probably shouldn’t have served in the first place. If I punch out the check out clerk at 7-11, I’ll most likely get arrested, but in the military I can claim PTSD and get a fat medical retirement. The military hands out medical psych retirement like candy. Thus, if a said service member is ever denied a PTSD claim, he was probably a jerk who — if he ever held any kind of real job in the civilian world in any capacity, would have been fired years ago. Even more frustrating is that probably after someone’s 8thor 9th congressional compliant, they will get benefits. The last time I checked, we have a volunteer military, people know the risks. Man up. Serving is a privilege not a right. I feel sorry for the WWII vets that couldn’t speak of horrors they saw, I feel compassion for the forgotten frozen soldiers of the Korean War, and I get angry when I think of the Vietnam Vets who were treated horribly by the public (when most were drafted in the first place). But, I only feel disgust for some of these overly self-entitled servicemen and women today who want a cookie because they heard a mortar go off, got a DUI, and punched out their NCO when they came back from a deployment wherte they spent most of their time eating lobsters and steak at a civilian run DFAC behind 3 foot thick blast walls, while civilian contractors also did their laundry. Most of these “new army” soldiers refuse to take any responsibility what so ever for their actions. I guess we just can’t hurt people’s self-esteem anymore. Put up, or shut up, or get out of the military then — without claiming you need 1,000+ dollars a month in medical retirement for a disorder that many of the best psych doctors can still debate the actual existence of (in particular given it’s overlapping symptom cluster presentation with most of the DSM). And one final point– unlike the guy missing his arm or her leg or his ability to walk ever again (those things aren’t coming back); but last time I checked PTSD is treatable and curable. There should absolutely no compensation given for PTSD (depression, anxiety, or even bipolar for that matter)—- no monetary compensation—other than treatment/ medical care. Because at the point you’re not doing treatment, or the right treatment, or only show up at the last moment at the VA for your PTSD disability claim, you have absolutely no intention (EVER) of getting better and are probably one of those people who say things like: “I would the number one student in medical school, if it wasn’t for this darn PTSD” (what a safe place to live your life from)… Don’t anyone get upset with this post. Like I said, the lawyers will always fight this one out in the end and win. Eventually after anyone’s 8th or 9th congressional compliant, they will get their benefits… so don’t worry… while the American Gov. continues to slip into utter bankruptcy…
bankrupt solider: I guess you’re of the opinion that women shouldn’t serve and if they do, shouldn’t complain if they are sexually harassed, raped and abused. You’re one of the ones who believe that all women are whores and deserve what they get in the military. I don’t want a f-ing cookie or any sympathy from the likes of you. You and people like you don’t make matters any better for women who want to come forward even after years of secretly coping with the shame, anger, depression resulting from being a woman and wanting to serve. Show your true colors and tell it like you really feel: If a woman is raped in the military, she deserves it because she didn’t belong there in the first place. In fact, most of these posts are geared toward men who’ve seen combat, to hell with women who have to put up with the s**t that you wouldn’t want your mother, daughter or sister to put up with. Tell any woman in your family to bend over and shut up. And don’t even try to pretend that you haven’t witnessed it. I know you have. Man up you hypocrite. You just as guilty or worse than any soldier who has raped, sexually harassed or abused a woman in the armed services. I never punched my commanding officer. I stood at the rear of my barracks waiting for a ride when a group of men pulled up. I had never seen them before, but because I had a reputation for trying to be a descent female and didn’t fall for the slurs, advances, dirty jokes, etc., one of the men got out pulled his penis and started pissing around my feet. He said this is what I think of bitches like you. Every f-ing time I think about it I want to kill somebody and if you think I don’t think about it 35 years later, you’re mistaken. I think about it every time someone like you opens his mouth. This so-called soldier wasn’t alone either. Guys like you were right along with him.
You make me sick. Your a bigoted, woman-hating pig.
2 x blog posts on the subject.
PTSD is a living hell. Faking it is as bad as any fraud and then some because it means that true sufferers may have be routinely doubted until they convince. Fancy having to convince rather than just report. Imagine if your living hell isn’t like someone’s concept of it and they reject you.
The problems are multiple and vexing. No one on the planet – ‘cept maybe a regular sicko’ is going to read up and front up with some fakery unless there is enormous incentive to do so. Remove the financial incentive and the fakers would stop coming.
There is another matter and deserves an article of its own. A man or woman who serves deserves whatever they are given when struck down by PTSD. So there is an incentive for a ‘genuine’ to present and be diagnosed and apply for the benefits. Now, if you go looking on the web you will find some therapies in the research where a PTSD diagnosis can no longer be made after a course of some of these therapies. PTSD that has been visited on victims of child abuse, assault, car accidents, rape, and all manner of physical and emotional abuse, rejoice on the roof tops when they discover these unsung methods but what would happen if a client was a vet? With every cell they will wish the demon gone but what if they lose they lose their benefits? Will I get sued? Is there a huge disincentive to not enter these programs or not finish them? Surely if I had PTSD I would want it fully addressed no matter what. But then my thinking is not affected by PTSD so I couldn’t’ claim to have a clue as to what I would do. I believe any compensation should be paid regardless and if the sufferer uses some of this to find help that makes them free, or nearly so, of these disgusting symptoms they should still get/keep the benefits.
Yet another twist.
I know of some cases where vets under these new treatments are getting rid of symptoms and then pull back as they fear they will no longer be accepted by their peers as one who is suffering along with them. As the orthodox view says ‘you have it for life’, these ‘improvers’ are afraid of it being said that if they can nail their PTSD then they never really had it. Great! Brings new meaning to the phrase, ‘no win situation.’ Can’t win no matter what road you take. What a horrible bind.
So here are three different matters that are very troublesome. I truly wish there were answers.
Experience with roughly 800 PTSD clients has me believing that the condition causes intermittent disability. In severe cases patients are capable of working some of the time but not enough to maintain a typical 9 to 5 job. Most, who can keep a job for a few months at a time, fake it enough to keep stable benefit income. If income is threatened PTSD symptoms worsen. To keep income some patients unconsciously hold on to their symptoms.
I am a retired Air Force officer and was on the medical staff of a major VA hospital that specialized in neuropsychiatic care. Nothing infuriated me more than the vets who, 35 years after the Vietnam war, come into our facility to game the system. Go through the available PTSD programs and participate in the counseling sessions and eventually they can get 100% service connected disability for their 1 year visit to ‘Nam. (currently this is worth over #39,000 per year tax free. In addition, they can get retroactive pay dating back to their original claim). Many would brag to me ” I’m working on getting my 100%”. The VA has dedicated physicians, pshycholgists and social workers and effective psychiatric programs; they provide mental health support and appropriate meds for those who actualy need them. I strongly recommend removing the financial incentive for fraudulent claims by eliminating monetary compensation for PTSD. If done, it would reduce the overwhelming case loads currently experienced by VA hospitals by weeding out scam artists who disgrace the uniform they wore by stealing from the American taxpayers. And it would free up more time and money to treat our truly deserving wounded warriors from Iraq and Afghanistan.
What infuriates me is people like you who totally ignore the statistics in the post (0.55 of veterans appear to be gaming the system). Just like the gamers effect everyone, so does your blatant negativity. Its people like you who keep the female vet from ever coming forward and reporting rape, sexual harassment or other sexual trauma – I don’t care if what she experienced did happen 35 years ago – because what she’s confronted with is a wall of denial. The fact is that the US military did not protect women 35 years ago and is just beginning to make strides in protecting them now. Let’s just hope you weren’t in any decision making capacity at that hosp where you were in a position of denying a vet benefits just because you could because of your position. That’s worse than any fraud perpetrated by the so-called gamers. Your self-righteousness is disgusting. If you hear someone bragging about getting 100% and you’re convinced that they are not worthy, report them for fraud don’t poison the system with your negativity. Keep it to yourself. Few women would want to make up a rape, persistent sexual harassment and abuse and go through years of self-loathing, guilt, anxiety, secrecy, you name it for what could amount to a few extra bucks a month, just as few soldiers would want to make up combat related PTSD. Look what they’d have to deal with if they did.
I’ve watched PBS specials where WWII vets openly sob when recounting what they experienced over fifty years ago. I feel and believe their pain and wouldn’t want to live it in a million years. I’ve heard countless wives say their husbands “never” talk about their military experiences. No wonder when they may be up against someone like you. They have to be Mr. Tuff Nuts! And I have people like you discounting the crap I went through as a woman in the military because it wasn’t combat.
You’re a self righteous pr###k. You don’t give a crap about the American taxpayer. You’re only concerned with your own narrow-minded view.
I hate you and the system you stand for.
Thank you!
I’ve worked at a large VA hospital. I can say with 100% certainty that faking PTSD symptoms is rampant due to the money connected to the diagnosis. I often heard veterans on the Substance Abuse Unit plot and tell each other what to say/do. It was daily that I heard things like: “Say you are suicidal to get Inpatient,” “Don;t say you hear voices,” “Tell the docs you have nigtmares and night sweats,” etc, etc. There were several people getting 100% disability who never deployed. There is no record-checking. The clinicians had to accept as fact the Pt’s story. One guy, as an example, said he was a combat veteran in Vietnam and served in 1977. He got money too. It is a problem and many veterans who could use the treatment and help won;t get it. The veterans do not hae to show proof and can easily figure out what to say. There is no easy fix. There is no review system. PTSD is a serious issue, but, sadly, many former military who never did anything other than annoy their CO’s and act as “turds” get the money and Treatment. Sad but true. The female vet from Vietnam should get help. I feel sorry you were raped, but, you are not accurate with your points.
Real Deal,
Actually, I believe her points are on par! You not only buy your own story, but go about the business of convincing others that what you’re stating is the truth and nothing but the truth. Your supposed facts are not adding up because a story alone is not going to get them compensation. If you really work at that large VA hospital, wonder where you find the time to listen to all these stories? If you truly have time for all of that, I can say with 100% surety that you need to resign, so someone else can take over and do the job! It’s those like you that help to keep those with severe problems from coming forward for treatment. It’s those like you that assume they are all lying. It’s those like you that contribute to the perpetuation of the dilemma for those that are unreachable, sometimes ending in suicide. It’s those like you that need to take a step back and question your own motives. Definitely, it’s people like you that should not be working with veterans!
Really? Just because you or someone you know suffers from a legitamate disorder, don’t defend all those that have managed to get the disability assigned to them. I’m a Vet, served my country for a total of 8 and a half years. Obviously I’ve been out a while, and I’ve worked my way up in the civilian world. Meanwhile my 28 year old shitbag cousin, goes in the airforce, he loads airlplanes, and somehow gets depressed and gets a diagnosis out of it. He gets out with $1100 a month disability. He was faking! He’s all laughs and smiles now that he got a free retirement. So if anything those of you who are someone, or know someone with a real disability, you should be enraged by the fakers. They make it appear that all are faking their problem. When you try to throw a wet blaket over the situation, it makes me suspect which group you belong too. The majority of vets like me who served with honor and then got out with an honorable discharge, feel the same way as me. So don’t try and say the non vets don’t understand, because the real vets don’t understand either!! I’ve got freinds who killed for this country, and don’t collect a dime now. So grow up and quit making excuses for those who just don’t want to work, (which I’m guessing is half of the psych. cases)!!
It’s getting more and more difficult to sit back and watch the fraud that takes place in the facility I work at. I’ve seen it all and am amazed at how easy it is to get a 100% SC diagnosis these days. I take pride in serving America’s Veterans, I myself am prior service, my husband served 26 years in the Army, I understand the price the service members have paid. There are many, many Vets with PTSD and other mental illness’ this I know, but there are a huge number of Vets that are indeed faking symptoms for a check on a daily basis. For those who want to argue that it’s not easy to fake it and get a check, I’m telling you it is! We have had Vets call television stations, news papers and congress when their claim was either denied or taking what they felt was too long. Some of these cases are legit, some not. Here are a few of the things that make me such a skeptic.
1. Veteran comes to the VA requesting help for PTSD, etc…and files a SC laim. Veteran is assigned to intensive inpatient and/or outpatient therapy, sometimes both. Vet claims symptoms are so severe they cant work, cant be around large groups of people, cant sleep, so on and so on. Veterans attend all therapy sessions and treatment groups for their diagnosis. If your in an inpatient VA facility, your claim (in most cases) will get processed faster somehow. Once that claim has been approved and the check is either received or on the way we have a Veteran who no longer needs the therapy sessions or groups, is now stable and requesting discharge.
2.Some Veterans are giving false information, lying about their MOS, where and how many times they were deployed. All the correct information is burried in the Vets chart and is easy to either confirm or not, but it would be very time consuming and I believe this is the reason so many false claims are getting approved.
3. I too hear the Veterans passing information back and forth on how to fake PTSD, what to say, what symptoms to report, how to get 100%, etc….
It goes on so much you would be hard pressed to find someone in my field that hasn’t heard these things over and over.
These frauds are easily identified by the Veterans with true PTSD and it’s a tough pill for them to swallow.
4. PTSD can originate from any traumatic expierence. Rape, abuse, assault, accident, etc….
I find it hard to believe that there are millions upon millions of people that that have not served in the Armed Forces, that do have PTSD of one form or another, diagnosed or undiagnosed that are functioning, hard working individuals.
5. The true PTSD sufferes don’t lie and make up stories. It’s here,I have it and this is why!
Yes, PTSD is real. It also is very subjective and there are incentives for fraud. If you take away the incentives for fraud, then the issue of fraud would resolve.
PTSD / PTS is a normal reaction to a traumatic event. Yes, reactions are individual and may also be influenced by underlying conditions. Regardless, for the most part, PTS should not be a disabiling condition, nor should it be treated that way. Provide the best on-going treatment possible for this condition, engage the member back into society while undergoing this treatment, and do not hand out the incentive that would promote fraud. With this, better outcomes would prevail for the true sufferers of PTS.
Mental health is not taken seriously in the US. This is the reason we have the highest per capita incarceration rate on the world,the highest murder/violent crime rate in the industrialized world, and why we have so
Many homeless people. All you people that claim tons of vets are without character and integrity are amazing.
This is the problem and the reason why soldiers are getting away with fraud. Because people can’t fathom that anyone in the military may have bad or even criminal intentions. I have A Family Member Who was in the military. Who admittedly faked PTSD. Who is a drug addict and I’d on the run for warrants and just got bumped up to 100% disability. He never saw one day of combat. He is an addict and a fraud and it makes me sick. I agree with the Dr that wrote this article. Good for you for saying what others are too scared to say bc of a lack of social acceptance.
The monstrous PTSD fraud squanders funds needed for legitimate illness. A damned shame!
Yes fraud with PTSD occurs. I know of a case right now (which I’m having ethical dilemmas with on whether to report). The soldier was a cook, he is using an incident that occurred while he was in Iraq as grounds for his PTSD claim. I happened to be with his spouse on the night the incident occurred and he told her he wasn’t in the mess tent when the explosion happened. Yet move ahead two more deployments and the soldier is told to lose weight and make rank or his will be discharged. Feeding his family of six children was scary so another soldier helped him fabricate his claim. He now gets $4,000 a month to sit home and play violent video games all day! That’s the only ones he really likes to play. They have joked on the phone how much $$$ they are receiving and how he played up his “symptoms” to gain approval. One of his favorites was to urinate in his pants when a nurse would draw blood. The sight of blood he maintains is traumatic to him. So how can he play videos full of blood and violence. In fact they just frauded the IRS. They let someone else claim their children in return they split the tax return. … not too bad for $5,300. In addition they are talking about becoming foster parents to earn more of an income. $4,000 in va payment monthly isn’t enough.
This soldier would also lie about his family’s situation to get his chain of command to take up collection for the children to receive xmas gifts. They had tons of stuff already for them. His wife has a fraudulent insurance claim also. She is supposedly so injured from being backed into that she needed all these medical treatments. However she gets paid for caring for her “PTSD” ridden husband. If she’s so hurt how can she? In the 12 years I have known them they have lied and set up what I call gimmicks to pass through 4 CPS investigations. These two are great at what they do, they’ve falsified so much they have become professionals! It’s disgusting!
For the past 13 years, I have Witnessed Veterans–and their Families–Play the ‘PTSD Game’ at a large V.A. Medical Center. The Psychologists and Psychiatrists are ‘forced’ to accept the Personal Patient (Subjective) Reports about their (Contrived and/ or Grossly-Exaggerated) Stressors or Experiences. Their is No Required ‘Proof’, Substantiation or Verification in Order to Process a Claim of PTSD. If the Veteran is a ‘Good Liar’ or ‘Storyteller’ or ‘Actor’, then they will be Rewarded with a Life-Long, Tax-Free, (Service-Connected), Monthly: Disability Check! There is, also, No System of (Future) Re-Evaluation or Re-Assessment of the (‘So-Called’) PTSD-Related Disability. The (Unknowing) American Taxpayers are Totally Unaware of this Chronic, Ongoing: Fraud, Waste and Abuse!
A Thoroughly-Disgusted and Irate V.A. Employee and American Taxpayer!
Finally, someone who sees through the utter ptsd(lower case intentional) bullshit. Of course, there will always be those who have personal issues with life and its stressors, and thankfully, they are assisted in various ways, veteran or non-veteran. However, this mind-boggling abuse of the ptsd claim is a juggernaut which is spinning out of control. Who , in their right mind, would decline an offer of a substantial monthly payment, tax-free, from the gov’t if all you had to do was convince someone that you have a specific spectrum of symptoms which align with the DSMlV manual diagnosis? I know I would if offered the opportunity! The word is out. It’s an open secret that this ptsd scam in free money for life if you just want to play a little game with the VA until the largesse is received. Then you can start cancelling your appointments with “therapists” and VA Dr.s.(as I’ve been made aware lately). What is troubling to me with this abuse is the incessant rant from alleged educated people who state that this “disorder” is so rampant among veterans that efforts are afoot to find those who do have ptsd. I can only assume that they are either extremely naive, or either have some financial gain with the furtherance /expansion of it.
Additionally, it is instructive to note that after Vietnam a booklet was published to assist ptsd claiming veterans on what to say/not to say at the pre-diagnosis interviews. If that isn’t an eye-roller, nothing is. Also, the media has climbed on the ptsd bandwagon , and you would think that those alleging ptsd, the “silent” disorder, were as incapacitated as those veterans who had maiming, amputations,lifelong, life- changing disfigurements. 100% is 100%, and it doesn’t vary depending on type of diagnosis. So, here we are , chaps, even if you were never near a war zone, you can claim this “drama”, and you may be lucky to be a winnah! What an absolute crock. The stories that I’ve had related to me are un-settling. And, the public is running with it, to the degree that if you even suggest that ptsd is is so much froth, they will turn on you and deride you for not “supporting our troops” . DRAMA ain’t trauma! ugh. Former Marine,69-73.
Read some of the comments. PTSD, something that can neither be proved or disproved even by professionals. I can relate two stories. Navy reservist didn’t want to deploy from family, pursued PTSD diagnosis, then was upset he couldn’t reenlist to retirement. Pursued claim with VA and got it. Civil servant during down time frequently asleep at work and uses PTSD medication as excuse to sleep. Explosive temper, irritable. He was computer support in Navy. Second case: Retired E6, draws 70% for back and other, has valor story he repeatedly tells about fenceline sniper he took out with single shot after grabbing weapon from military police. I spoke with local military police who had deployed and was told that would have generated an incident report had it happened. Spoke with Dyess munitions squadron (where he claimed to be deployed from) and they never heard of the incident and never heard of the guy. The guy has no medals to show for the incident and claims he was a munitions tech. He was working on his PTSD claim. Oh, third guy, combat Marine, worked as mine clearing, retired after 20 something. Got into argument with VA rep and was dianosed PTSD. So I worked with all three of these guys. I’m not a headshrinker so how would I know. Just presenting the facts as they were observed.
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