A police officer only needs to use “reasonable force” to make an arrest. How many Fullerton, Calif. police officers does it take to arrest one man?
Well, it took five patrol cars, 6 officers, tasering 37-year-old Kelly Thomas numerous times, and beating him so badly that he went into a coma. And then died a few days later.
What was Thomas’s alleged crime that resulted in his death? Breaking into cars, looking for things to steal.
Welcome to our more violent America, where citizens stand by while the police beating took place, too afraid to intervene and save Thomas’s life. Is this what we’ve come to?
Kelly Thomas was a long-time member of the Fullerton homeless community, and apparently had schizophrenia. While sometimes scary looking (as not bathing and not having access to regular changes of clothing and grooming accessories does to many people), people on Fullerton Stories mostly remember Thomas as a “quiet and polite” man, someone who was “gentle and childlike.” But of course, untreated schizophrenia can result in strange and unpredictable behavior — behavior that some might take as threatening or hostile.
Gawker has the story:
Thomas — who suffered from schizophrenia, and was homeless — caught the attention of the police after someone reported that a burglar was breaking into cars parked near a Fullerton bus station. When officers approached Thomas in the depot parking lot and tried to arrest him, he resisted.
So his apparent crime was breaking into cars. Why do you need to use such force against a common thief?
To me, this is just another example of poorly trained police officers who immediately jump to conclusions about a person — “He’s homeless, he must be drugged up, he must be looking for his next high, he won’t know what hit him” — and let the chips fall where they may.
What police are forgetting is that nowadays, people are everywhere with their camera phones and other video recording devices. They can no longer hide behind their paperwork and “let’s all tell the same story and stick together” mentality — the video will tell the truth.
And while the person who shot the video below was way too far away to actually shoot anything happening (even the distant sounds are hard to make out, especially over the running commentary by the person shooting the video), it’s still pretty interesting from a perspective about the psychology of a small group of citizens looking on to a show of force by their own police.
Here’s a small group of people who, from their comments, are pretty clearly upset and adamant that the police are going too far in this situation and beating a single person — 6 against 1. But instead of forming a cohesive group and bringing their concerns to one of the officers, they stand back, far away from the action with a “It’s none of my business” mentality. The group is afraid — fear keeps them back and nonconfrontational.
This may also be an example of the power and pull of authority on groups of people, as illustrated by famous experiments such as the Stanford prison experiment by Philip Zimbardo in 1971 or the Milgram experiment by Stanley Milgram in 1961. We may be inclined to obey authority figures without question, even when doing so goes against our own personal morals and values.
And, after all, if our own local police department can do this to a man — a man who was doing nothing more than allegedly breaking into cars — what might they do to me if I try and intervene on another human being’s behalf?
An investigation into the six officers behavior has been opened by the district attorney’s office, so only time will tell whether “reasonable force” was used in this situation. But by all accounts, here was a man who was mentally ill who didn’t deserve to die for his crimes.
Video of the incident (taken from afar):
Witness who saw the beating describes it:
“They kept beating him and Tasering him. I could hear zapping, and he wasn’t even moving,” said Turgeon. “He had one arm in front of him like this, he wasn’t resisting. And they kept telling him, ‘He’s resisting, quit resisting,’ and he wasn’t resisting.”
Interview with Ron Thomas, the man’s father and a former sheriff’s deputy:
Read the full article: Police Beat ‘Gentle’ Homeless, Mentally Ill Man to Death
Photo courtesy of The Fullertonian.
195 comments
For those of you who can not see the brutal attack on Kelly as anything but gang violence against an unarmed man, I am in awe. The police are not perfect. The Fullerton Police Department has come under scrutiny long before this incident. Unfortunately the department is not being cleaned up fast enough. Six men tazered a man five times while he cries for his father. This is not being disputed. He was then hit several times with the butt of a tazer. His face was unrecognizable after the police were done. The gruesome pictures are readily available. No one should be subject to this violence. Are we living in a police state? I am totally disgusted!
I dont care if this VICTIM resisted arrest or not he is suffering from a mental health problem. He cried out for his daddy while getting beat by people who are sworn to protect and serve. If you have the stomach all of you who are defending the police officers should look up the ER pictures of Kelly Thomas and see what these MURDERERS did to this human being. It’s inhumane they are the scum of the earth and I hope they serve the rest of their lives in prison!!!
I see the majority of people hear feel the same as I do. Betrayed. Angry. Sad. I didnt even know this man and I feel for him and his family. I work in the ER and have to restrain mentally ill patients DAILY! Usually its me and maybe 3 unarmed security officers (if they can getoff their lazy asses). But we never killed any one. Heck. We were successful EVERY TIME and the only people that would get hurt…was us. For those of you who feel that the police and EVERY public official should be held to a higher standard of punishment for violating the laws they are sworn to protect then I say we do something about it. Here is my proposal. Use the internet. We need the picture of every officer involved with names and address. Address are optional. And post for all the world to see who these people are and well lets just say justice will be served. Oh and EPpi, if you ever have the unfortunate experience of having your hand pinned under neath you while 2 large well equiped men hold you down with their knees, oh yes while your being tazed, I hope you have a better outcome than Kelly did. Because if you dont get yer pinned hand out they are going to kill you. Thats fair…right? Oh wait you cant use your muscles when your being tazed. Shit you cant even control your bladder if your being tazed. Hhhhmmm? Pictures. Names. Internet. I think all we (the sane) want is for those responsible to be held accountable.
I am going to Fullerton to participate in the protest and to publicly call for the resignation of the police chief and the prosecution of the involved officers. Anybody want to join me? The only way we can stop the unnessary violence is to let the offenders know “We the people will NOT stand for this!” From now on Im carring my video camera with me and im gonna point it right at the cops. How do you like me now!
I have not seen any evidence that Mr Kelly broke into any cars at all. There was a call that SOMEONE was attempting to break into cars. Mr. Kelly was simply sitting on a bench near the cars when police arrived.
Regardless, one need only look at the photo of Mr Kelly in the hospital before he died to see excessive force was used. That is putting it mildly. This 130 pound, unarmed man was brutally beaten to death by six policemen while crying and calling out for his Dad. If the police involved assumed that as a homeless man, no one would care what happened to him, they are very wrong.
edited – I meant to type “Mr Kelly Thomas”, not “Mr. Kelly”.
Many police are Freemasons. The judiciary is heavily infiltrated with Masons, who give fellow Masons “the benefit of the doubt” in court, subverting the legal system. WAKE UP PEOPLE.
Here’s a little bit of an addendum to this case:
http://news.yahoo.com/homeless-mans-death-arrest-outrages-father-081021492.html
All of those police officers involved should be convicted of 2nd degree murder, and sent to prison. This is absolutely incredible, what they did to this man. And if I were the father, I would make sure that I pursued this to the fullest extent. Those cops need to be sent to prison.
They should be stripped of their police licence.
They had the ability to subdue him. Anyone that works with people with disabilities/mental illness knows how to hold a person down and keep them down, while the person rants, yells, and screams. They beat him to death. They should have held him down until he was calm enough to be taken into custody. ANYONE TRAINED FOR ONE DAY IN MENTAL HEALTH KNOWS HOW TO DO THIS.
Some say he should have cooperated. Not all schizos can do that, especially really sick ones. Hello. That’s why this is such a tragedy. Those aggressive and uneducated cops need to be punished big time, and the rest of all cops need better training.
The police have a special training program and protocol that they must follow. The training lasts four hours. Wooohoooo a whole FOUR FRICKEN HOURS. and the protocol is simple….treat the mentally ill with compassion, and understanding.These officers are told to council the ill, with patience….this isn’t the protocol used with Kelly Thomas!!!!
I don’t know if any of us will ever hear from the police as to why they murdered Kelly, but I do know that I will not stop searching for and demanding answers from all sides.
I have posted an article that may be worth reading.
Justiceforkellythomas.wordpress.com
The boys family should have the right to kick the crap out of those cops until they are dead. They should be tried and convicted just like anyone else and then put in population in prison with a tag that says “I’m a convicted cop!”
After seeing what those cops did #1 they ain’t cop’s they are PIGS & COWARDS! I hope they go to prison for this and I hope some prisoners give those guys what they deserve!
It’s horrible, and I fear that too many police officers are uneducated – not only about mental illness, but about the rights of citizens overall.
They think that they can make and enforce their own rules. There has to be adequate raining, oversight, and consequences for illegal and even uncivil behavior on the part of law enforcement ( and I’m sure of lot of professional police agree. There was a story recently about cops in Rochester NY who threatened to arrest a woman who was recording an arrest – she was on her own property with a cell phone/camera watching an arrest in the street.
All very upsetting and frightening.
You need to do more research Doc. A “concerned citizen†called 911 and said he was breaking into cars to get the police to respond. In fact he was doing what he always did, looking for cigarette buts on the ground.
Ron, they are not PIGS; they are murders and accessories to murder, and they got “administrative leave†(Paid Vacation).
I am so sorry for all the people who comment on here with very low reading comprehension. How can anybody listen to those tapes and look at the ER picture and feel this is not excessive force! Back to reading comprehension Kelly’s father DID NOT EXCEPT THE MONEY OFFERED TO HIM! He has stated that whatever money he gets will be put to use to help the homeless and mentally ill. How can so many of you condemn Kelly’s father and family for not trying to help him. Did you all read that Kelly was a 37 year old ADULT man? Do you all understand that once someone who is mentally ill and becomes an ADULT that they cannot be forced into treatment, or made to stay compliant with medications? Do you understand that not being compliant with medications is part of the ILLNESS?? Do you understand the side effects of the medications used to treat mental illness? Do you understand the pain and anguish this family has gone thru, even before this horrific murder of their son. Did read how Kelly was a good kid, doing well in school, had goals and ambitions?? Then it was all snatched away by this horrible demon we call “schizophrenia”! Do you understand how the institutions established to help such people have changed? Do you know that in many places they will not help until or unless they are posing a danger to themselves or someone else and even sometimes not until an act has been committed! I know this personally when trying to get help for my 18 year old son. Wearing a uniform and a badge does not make you a good person, or does being mentally ill or homeless make you a bad person. There are GOOD and BAD people in all walks of life!!! For those of you condemning the witnesses for not doing something I am including a link to videos of one of the witnesses that was in my opinion assaulted by one of the officers and thrown to the ground and I believe arrested. If the police where being just and fair why would they assault this individual for filming them or for speaking up for Kelly???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiNOjG-xlPw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9XPbdRqrZw&feature=related
Depravity – moral perversion; impairment of virtue and moral principles;
I hope and pray that justice will be served! I hope and pray that Kelly’s family and friends will be able to heal! I hope and pray that Kelly Thomas death will not be in vain! I hope and pray that this will open the eyes of society, not just in California but across the country that changes need to be made! Rest in Peace Kelly!! Know that your death has gotten the attention to the world even thou you may have seemed invisible to many!!!
As I stated in the beginning of my statement, HOW can anybody listen to those tapes and look at the ER picture and feel this is not excessive force!
Ps. Some of these posts make some of you no better than them!!
Reading through many of these comments it’s gratifying to see that some people believe that the police can use extreme force, negligence and abuse when arresting people. I have been a victim to such abuses. I’m bipolar and have fought with the illness for 36 years. Let me tell you it is a constant battle.
I have been incarcerated and have witnessed the police brutally beating women because they were schizophrenic and wouldn’t take their meds. One particular incident was with a woman in a cell next to me. SHe wouldn’t take her meds so 5 women deputies went in to her cell and beat her into submission, forcing her to go into the solitary confinement.
Police are completely uneducated and do not understand mental illness. During one of my incarcerations I was put in a infirmary or mental section of the jail. They kept me naked with no shower for 7 days. They would mess with my mind throughout my entire week in the ‘infirmary’. I never told the police that i was a harm to myself or others. My arrest was normal and they still put me in this cell with no clothes, shower and i wasn’t allowed to use the phone for a week. I would shout through my little port hole of a window pleading and begging for a blanket or no what was going on. The cops would make fun of me or yell and scream at me telling me to shut up. I would ask them what time it was and they would lie. I was subjected to complete torture and degradation behind bars. Finally i was allowed to see the judge i was crying and he released me from jail and my charges were dropped. TO this day i still have PTSD from this situation. The doctor never came and saw me while i was in jail. I was never given my meds. etc. I’m an educated woman with a degree in legal studies from a reputable university here in orange county. But my bipolarity is my downfall and i have struggled to remain alive because of it. My experience in jail isn’t the same as what happened to Kelly Thomas. However, I have seen and been victim to how police treat mentally ill people.
So sorry to read your story. You are getting the word out that we need to be more educated in dealing with mental illness. I think people would be more compassionate if they could understand it better. But for law enforcement officials- brute force is no the answer. I wish you well.
LOOK AT KELLY THOMAS’ FACE AFTER THE BEATING…….HOW DO YOU COPS SLEEP AT NIGHT?????
No one is safe at this point. We don’t know how many bad things theses cops did they have fire arm, hand cuff because their have a clean criminal record they think they are perfect for the job . We don’t know what they doing and never get caught hello i’m a police officer i’m perfect…no you are a murderer you deserve to die like you did to him.
Sadly 85 percent of police officers have the same mentality. They get this way because the first year they are sent for jail duty, and when finished there, consider all citizens to be like the people they have had for the last year,and treat the citizens the same way. I think jail duty for a new officer is a BIG mistake
Nice to see so many people calling for justice to be brought about here. Although Jay Cicinelli and the officers who participated or watched are ultimately to blame, the Fullerton Police Chief and others in the department are also guilty. If any of those defending the FPD bothered to do any research on the article they would realize: 1) There were numerous people at the FPD station watching the murder as it happened, 2) The officers were allowed to watch the tape repeatedly so they could “clean up” their reports and make sure everyone was on the same page, yet know the DA claim the tape can not be released because it may influence potential witnesses. Interesting double standard, 3) The police chief only placed the officers on leave once the video was released and he knew he could no longer keep the story under wraps, 4) FPD attempted to bribe Mr. Thomas’ father with $900,000 in order to make this away. I wonder why he didn’t just take the money if he is trying to profit from his son’s murder like a few people have hypothesized….I guess I should not be surprised that those supporting the FPD are unable to make a logical, cohesive argument based on any empirical evidence. When you spend your whole life following authority blindly you become incapable of thinking for yourself. Oh well, the majority of the people on here recognize that nothing Kelly Thomas could have done that night justified his murder. Perhaps if FPD had got Cicinelli some counseling before hiring him this tragedy could have been prevented. All of those discussing the difficulty of managing a person with schizophrenia should consider the psychological implications associated with losing an eye in battle. Obviously Mr. Cicinelli was suffering from his own mental issues. A sane person does not taser a man six times, and bash his skull in with a blunt object until he stops moving. Let us hope he is shown more mercy in prison than he demonstrated for Kelly Thomas.
John, how do you know that someone called in the car burglary just to get the cops to respond? If this is right then that person should get into poodoo too!
This is sad, this is horrific. I too am a mother of a 33 yr old with schizophrenia. If he is cornered he runs…..very basic it is a fright and flight reaction that is built into us. With paranoia it becomes compounded. The cops new of him, they should have come in with a totally different way.
The father has been quoted he’d like to set up a foundation to help the homeless (who have a very high percentage of being mentally ill). Some the illness of course is due to drug use, but there is a very high % that get it from genes. Their life is robbed and the parents lose the child they knew would be, they mourn. Most of the people with schizophrenia are very loving, sometimes their meds (if the wrong ones) can make the symptoms worse.
For the last 25 years I have been walking this walk….I call it the Road and Journey of Schizophrenia…from a mothers heart.
BTW people, they HAVE schizophrenia the illness. They aren’t an illness (schizophrenic).
P.S. Laws should be changed where a family can help, because you see, in most states the one suffering is protected by medical laws. The family has to have money to get power of attorney over them. This isn’t so easy to do. I don’t have money so I can’t do it. If my son says the staff can’t talk to me, then they can’t. When he shuts me out of the treatment part there is absolutely nothing I can do about it.
We help, but with handcuffs on us and the laws need to change where we can do this more easily. It is painful to bang your head on the closed doors and hearing sorry, he said you can’t know this. He can’t remember what meds he is allergic to, he thinks sometimes I am an imposter of his mother (mission impossible like) and sometimes the journey is walking in concrete shoes…..just trying to find a way to help with barricades up every where.
We are going through the same situation with my adult brother. Any attempt at help from family, and my brother isolates himself out of suspicion. His reality is that anyone in social work/behavioral health in a vast plot to torment him, and that his meds are poisoned. He recently described his current way of life as hell on earth. He is now taking steps to move out of state (not really knowing where, with no real plan) to escape the forces he thinks are after him. So due to our current health laws, which were written for those with a stable mental state, no one can intervene with his “freedoms.” All it would take is some meds to stabilize him, yet where we live the client has to call in themselves for intervention. This requirement is ridiculous, as 50% of people with schizophrenia have no insight into their illness.
I’m truly fed up with being made helpless by poorly thought out laws.
I agree the officers manufacture stories all the time, they are a bunch of thugs with badges. It is simple they have all the authority and they also know that their superiors and the Judges will side with them, so as long as their stories are humanly possible we lose. The Police Chief needs to step down and allow another corrupt individual to take his place.
why isn’t the victims family keeping him safe and off the streets? let put blame on them first, for letting a mental patient they produced roam free. they need to be punished for legally for irresponsibly letting the victim live as a homeless person. shame on them. put them in jail
second the officers who did this need to be fired first and then prosecuted and thrown in prison. and publicly humiliated in the national media. funny how they are not being hidden from the rest of us.
i wonder what their race is?
some times you can’t keep them home or even in assisted living. They have free will of their lives because they are over 21. You want to, but the laws stand in the way of it.
not much you can do about it and you cry.
If you spent 2 minutes actually reading the available information, you’d find that Thomas and his family are white (for whatever reason you need to know). As with many mentally disabled individuals, some suffering form schizophrenia manage their disease quite well with medication. On meds, they can often assimilate well into the community. The problem is keeping them on their meds. It’s a balance between maintaining their medication and allowing them their God-given and Constitutionally guarenteed freedom
since you ask they are white. disappointed?
the police today are completely out of control and most will jerk you out of a car for a broken tail light. the police are not to be trusted. i was pulled over once for going to slow, i have hundreds of dollars of new shrubs in the car and one small tree was sticking out the window. if it went too fast the leaves were blowing off. clearly i had a visible reason for going slow. the police who pulled me over tried to accuse me of being drunk, then a drug addict. he said i looked a drug addict.
it was not only rude and disrespectful to me but tried to get me to confess i was doing something wrong and make going slow an offense. he was a jerk and called in another patrol care. mind you
i have no offenses on record, i have a clean driving record, i own a home, and pay taxes, i am not young, and take no meds at all. i thought i was going to jail.
from that point forward i decided i was never going to give the police benevolent society or police charity any donations. all my respect ended. you may decide to do the same thing. funny
how they spent so much time on me that day. when i got rob, they refused to go and get the criminal in the next country. something is wrong when the police focus on terrorizing innocent citizens and
dont focus on the trouble makers, illegal aliens, hit and run drivers, etc.
no its more about power and terror over the law abiding. cops are scary individual. watch the crime shows and see how they take 20 member swat to a home and tear of the front of a house with a
batter ram and tank for a search warrant where nothing is found. why not do that to the illegal aliens home who house 30 illegals who are ruining america? watch cops, you see officers jerk people around for a marijuana cigarette. why not go after
and arrest all the mexican i.d. thieves? focus on something that helps all americans. a marijuana smokers is nothing compared to a lying politician greases the palms of their campaign donors so they can create NAFTA against the will of americans. terror the true evil doers.
Dear Mr. President;
As a proud citizen of this country, one of which has always championed human rights, I am asking you to come forth to protect the fine citizens of Fullerton, Ca. They ARE under seige by a brutal and inhuman malitia. A morally bankrupt government. Our help is desperately needed before another human life lost.
Let’s keep in mind that Kelly Thomas was a recognizable member of North Orange County’s homeless community. Many local merchants (some of whom have been interviewed by the media) knew him and described him as being very gentle. If the local merchants knew him, how could the police not? Fullerton is a small town, with a very intimate downtown area. There is zero chance that Thomas was unknown to these officers and it’s even less likely that they didn’t know he was mentally disabled….
Why aren’t these cops behind bars? They murdered this man! If it was you or I we would be in jail, yet it’s been over a month now and they’re free! We all know it doesn’t take 6 cops to subdue, cuff and put one man in a squad car. Did Kelly Thomas have dirt on these men? Maybe that’s why they had to dispose of him! To “Protect & Serve” right! I guess the badge gives them the right to kill cause they’re above the law! The 6 responsible will rot in “Hell”.
I believe that the nationwide de-instutionalization of the Mental ill, solved one problem, but failed to answer the larger challenge.
Unless one is a danger to himself or others, there is little available as a safety net. Parents and family must suffer the endless threat to loved ones that comes with out a safety net and is evidenced by the terrible death of Kelly Thomas. Where is the ACLU and Others in advocating alternatives and the funding to support them?
You hit the nail on the head with your comment! I know all too well how difficult it is to get help for a severely mentally ill person who is non-compliant and won’t take medicine. My family has been dealing with this heartbreak for years with my severely mentally ill brother. We can never get him help until he becomes violent or makes threatens to hurt himself or others. I fear one day it will be too little, too late.
First of all, don’t mess with the police. Second of all, don’t mess with the police. And lastly, don’t mess with the police especially when u are under the influence and breaking into cars. Any questions??
Mess with the police? You’re joking right? They mess with you for walking down the street in California.
I don’t believe there was any police report generated regarding burglarized vehicles at that time and place in question.
I’m grateful for the information in the article. I can also understand the author blaming the witnesses for not trying to stop the police. No one likes to feel helpless. No one wants to think that we really are powerless to stop what is going on. But I don’t think Milgram’s and Zimbardo’s findings really apply to this situation.
I don’t live in the United States, so I don’t have a good feeling for just how far police corruption and abuse of power have advanced, but to judge from the news I read, I believe it would be very unwise to intervene as of this year. These people were brave merely to take evidence at a distance. They are lucky they didn’t get arrested, beaten or killed for it. In an extremely corrupt system, there are ways of resisting–I commend the people who managed to catch the video and document what really happened–but no, you don’t just walk up and try to talk reason to a rabid mob unless you really want to commit suicide. Anonymity and careful action are needed.
WOW!!!!!!!
Cant believe they havent all been charged with MURDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Poor guy mentally ill and gets beat and tazered like that!!What were they thinking????????????
Makes me sick to even see what this mans family has to go through.HOPE THEY SUE!!!!!!!!!!!
R.I.P KELLY
Tim Mick McDermott
My heart cries when I see such an atrocity , a disrespect for human life…. for some reason I’ve always felt spiritually connected to all men women and children…the good, bad, and the ugly…also the wildlife we share this earth with.. I just know that WE are all connected somehow, yes, even to the $%$##@#^s who did this.. I feel sorry for them…in that they (the police) are obviously very sick and sadly EVIL..and then there’s …KARMA…It’s not my job to dole out justice “let vengeance be mine sayeth the Lord” I’ll still pray for this guy and his family & friends……….Be Peaceful……MIck
As long as the public chooses to put their heads in the sand and accept such brutal behavior by our police, these types of acts will continue.
This goes on everywhere in America. I live in a small community and we have had a crippled man shot several times in the back by a trooper under very questionable circumstances. His family was paid and the responsible cop was never punished. The system protects police and thus enables and promotes such criminal behavior.
I have witness and been a victim of police intimidation and malicious prosecution. The police are protected by the prosecutors, favored by the judges and thereby encouraged to continue their acts against innocent citizens.
Until we, as a society demand justice and equal rights for people victimized by the system, these situations will continue and get worse. Hundreds of times such acts have been documented and police are rarely if ever held accountable by criminal law. They are the law and anyone who thinks otherwise is ignoring the facts.
I have been a pro se litigant against police misconduct and I always vote. I speak out and I stand up. What have you done to support and protect our rights?
We lose our rights bit by bit almost every day. We spend billions of dollars supporting war across this planet and incarcerate millions of people. The system grinds people to a pulp and spits out revenue for those willing to rule with an iron fist. We line up to be searched in airports, at the courthouse and anywhere that the government can place a uniformed enforcer and we acquiesce to their every demand.
We have the society and the nation that we have created. By failing to address these issues we allow it to continue. What have you done to protect the weak or to demand that our rights are respected. Our constitution means nothing to the ruling class of politicians and police. Our courts refuse to respect citizens’ rights or to uphold the constitution.
Lying down and hoping that you will not be the next to be culled from the herd does not end the abuse. It’s sad that our formerly great nation has been reduced to such a state.
If you want to know who to blame then look in the mirror and ask yourself what have you done to make our nation a better place to live. Americans are weak and pitiful.
I am a defense attorney, I read hundreds of police reports and witness interviews about criminal cases. The cop phrase “Stop Resisting” is a free pass to beat a person senseless. I recently had a case where a young commercial burglar (never went in anyone’s home) took money from fat food places at night… was beaten by SEVENTEEN cops, was face down on the ground with his hands UNDER him and the cops were yelling STOP RESISTING as well as PUT YOUR HANDS BEHIND YOUR BACK. Because he could not GET his hands out from under him to GET them behind his back, they did not stop beating him until he too appeared dead, like Kelly. There is no doubt in my mind this phrase is taught in police classes, to make the suspect look aggressive.
Had someone like Kelly been approached by a uniformed officer who said “Hey man, I need to talk to you…” I will bet Kelly would have responded in the same calm manner. I have schizophrenic clients, their parents are unable to simply keep them home, they want to go out, they want to have friends and a social life. There are mental health programs available if they commit crimes… beating them senseless or to death is not on the list of things to do.
When are poeple going to figure out who many cops are? My jurors think they are heros who never lie. Truth… they are the bullies who beat kids on the playground after school and when it came to finding a job… they said “WOW I get a badge and a GUN and I get to boss people around — sign me UP!”
No one gets more admiration in a courtroom than a cop… why? This same public adores them as if they were soldiers. No idea why.
I hope more people keep video-ing. I hear Florida made it a crime to video police involved in an arrest. THAT should scare everyone.
I’m pretty sure you’re not the “Ann” who previously posted because your post was intelligent and I agree with every word of it. To Jim: I advised you to stop posting before and you just won’t listen! Asking people what they’ve done to help the cause is a statement that makes us all stop and think. But your pessimistic view on everything sure makes me think you’re part of the problem, not the solution. Like I say to other whiners-if you don’t like being here….LEAVE. Trust me, the grass is not going to be greener.
These police make me sick. Is it a wonder that people don’t like cops. A bunch of bullies with license to kill.
We need a National Police Force centralized in Washington D.C. the Time we live in grants us Video and other means of filming where a fare and independant group of newly trained and educated National Police can review.SURE I KNOW THIS SOUNDS NUTZ but i have it all down how we can do this transition smooth and easy and almost cost free.. Lets end the senseless numerous tradgeies that happen all over our Nation from a outdated system that worked in pre and post wwtt but not for the New Mill
Police are a fraternity of young, uneducated, unskilled, overpaid, tax sucking parasites. We need to quit paying them millions of dollars over there lifetime and leave the job to people who choose the profession for deeper reasons other than to be overpaid and untouchable. These cops are the reason citizens have such a strong distain towards the law enforcement community. Put them away for murder and prove me wrong about the law enforcement community please!
Tom, I would encourage you and everyone reading this thread not to over-generalize a few cops’ bad behavior to every police officer in the world or country. Some police are indeed “bad,” but most of the officers who work in our communities day in and day out are educated, well-trained individuals who vary in age in most police departments (there are many middle-aged and older police officers).
Let’s stay focused on these particular officers and their particular inexcusable behavior. Thanks.
Get rid of police officers, their pay should be about 35K max. I read that the one eyed officer is getting disability payments at 70% of his pay for the rest of his life. Secondly he is being paid by the Fullerton police dept. This is double dipping, he is another crook.
I’ll bet that 80% of public employees could not run their own business and make a profit, even if it was a bordello.
On April 11, 2009, my son, Craig Edward Prescott 38, was killed in his jail cell by eight deputies. Craig was mentally ill and was in jail for violating a restraining order; he had texted his wife. Earlier that January, he was exhibiting signs of depression. He talked excessively, became very religious, and talked about the return of Jesus, not like in a Bible study, but it became an obsession. In late January 2009, my family intervened by having Craig picked up by deputies who took him to the only mental facility in Modesto, He was released six days later. He seemed normal for the first three weeks but slowly regressed back to his previous condition. Craig had been a custodial deputy for more than nine years but was forced by fellow deputies in 2006 to resign. In 2002, Craig had filed a federal complaint, accusing the department of racial discrimination, using excessive force on the inmates, and sexual misconduct. I do not believe there was ever an investigation, but Craig had to work in a hostile environment until he was forced out. He spent the last three years of his life trying to get legal help but no one wanted to go against the sheriff. Although what had been done to him was against union and department policy, not even his union was willing to defend his rights. He managed to do maintenance and repair work on bank owned properties and earned enough to take care of his family. But by January 2009, something suddenly changed and I could see my son was deeply depressed and falling into a dark hole of despair. By April, I got phone calls from a couple of people I knew who saw Craig at the gym and expressed how some people were afraid of him and had called the police. I became frightened that the police would hurt him so together with Craig’s wife, Rachel, and my son Mickey, we asked the Modesto Police Department to help us by getting him locked up until he could be seen by a doctor. The police officer in charge spoke calmly to Craig and got him to cooperate. He was booked into Stanislaus County Jail on April 7, 2009, his 38th birthday. While he was awaiting a court appearance to see the judge to whom the DA would recommend that Craig be sent to a mental facility in Southern California, he was repeatedly tasered, water-balled and crushed in his cell by eight deputies on April 11th. Due to the phone call made by either an inmate or visitor, an ambulance arrived and Craig was taken to the hospital. On Monday, April 13th, Craig was pronounced brain dead due to the prolonged lack of oxygen to his brain, and other medical complications due to the injuries he sustained during the altercation with deputies. My son was not a criminal but he was killed in that jail. For more details and to see a video deputies made to justify their use of excessive force, go to YouTube/CraigPrescott. Those eight deputies dragged my son’s lifeless body into a small safety cell where they all hovered over him as if to hide Craig from the camera. There they claimed he was kicking and resisting them; they said he kicked two deputies across the cell. See for yourselves if you can see that happening. I believe my son was murdered in his own cell. They desecrated my son’s body in order to cover-up their crime. A cry for help should never be a death sentence, but it was for Craig.
Let me also mention that Craig Prescott, my son, was married and was the father of six daughters. The deputies forced him to resign by threatening to harm his children. One of them said to Craig, “How would you like it if we busted the door down on your five children?”(They did not know Craig had six girls). Craig told me that the thought of them harming his children nearly frightened him to death.
Pierre Abernathy – a mentally ill citizen of San Antonio, Texas – was tased and beaten to death by a group of at least six police officers on August 4, 2011.
Police Chief McManus, City Manager Sculley, City Attorney Bernard (brother of White House Social Secretary Jeremy Bernard) and others have conspired to hide three decades of public and police corruption for the past several years – violating the law in the process.
Police Chief William McManus, the San Antonio Police Department and the City of San Antonio, Texas cannot be trusted to investigate and report on the murder of Pierre Abernathy. Citizens and family members cannot expect to get a factual accounting of the death at the hands of the police.
I and other citizens call for the City of San Antonio to take similar action to that undertaken by the City Council of Fullerton, California when it was discovered that their police force could not be trusted to tell the truth concerning the murder of yet another mentally ill citizen by police officers. We call for an independent investigation into the murder of Pierre Abernathy and the other criminal acts by SAPD/City officials.
I live in SA and never heard about this. Even though I don’t pay attention to much mainstream news one would think there would have been more of an outcry over this. I know the arguments will be that Pierre’s prior history justified their actions but anyone with half a brain can see that flawed logic. I would like to learn more about his case and I agree we should demand an accounting for this senseless, and unnecessary tragedy.
Thomas, a homeless man… How can someone be homeless when he’s got some family, his own father, living somewhere?
Now Ron Thomas’ son is dead and he’s been giving interviews left and right. Where was he when Kelly Thomas needed mental help???
I don’t get this.
That’s a very good question, it does make you wonder.So far, very few details about this case have been reported, so I can only speculate about this case.However,although Kelly had a father, it’s very possible that the relationship wasn’t that good and even though the father might have wanted him to stay at home, Kelly may have preferred to live on the street. Hopefully we’ll soon learn more about this father son relationship.
Obedience is a criterion that all must use to make decisions and should be based on ethics, mores, and the law. It would be very different had a majority of the officers involved derailed the event of fight. To bring a stressful situation from getting worse, steps and procedures are used, such as separating and creating a distance between each individual which is used in the stopping of most fights and held at distances until they regain a conscious towards the social mores.
Individuals lose faith trust and comfort with society’s means, counseling programs, work, home, and other social mores practice. The have very difficult times with reestablishing foundations amongst society such as honesty, integrity, and reputation. Some develop a string addiction to the freedom of not being responsible or having to be liable for the necessities of life. Worse individuals lose their strengths to avoid addictions to drugs, alcohol and other substances not realizing how hard it can be to redevelop the strengths, they simply fall to the next or whatever gives them attention, or satisfaction. The could be rich, with rich powerfully families, that have children and a wife or girlfriend or even married, though relentless to avoid the freedom, freedom of getting involved in predicaments that get people upset, and freedom to cause question about the persons integrity. My research describes two types of society beliefs one being epic and the other being ethic, some try both. When epics principles are offended by ethical values they ether play it out the best they can, or even result to the flight or fight triggers from within. Most are very particular about what activities they participate in and events they allow themselves to get involved in while some pay no mind and dispute ones that argue that their freedom is violating the rights of others.
Kenneth
My world has went form rich successful and well founded to destruction, homeless and even jail, though strengths courage and good ethical intentions have helped, along with dedication and compliance with programs that obedient in nature and practice, one being alcoholic anonymous, it’s been a lot better and I have almost seven years sober and I have kicked meth and cocaine and the crowed that would not. As frustrating and difficult as it is it is a shame more people don’t turn to cognitive skills and avoid poor traits and influence that develop into bad and criminal behavior. I am presently living with my mom at 43 years old while finally studying for college degree, single no children, though alive and striving for new evolution of skills, team courage and strengths to prevent the fallout from ever happening again. “Birds of a feather flock togetherâ€
Kenneth
Another mythology to the madness is that the individuals develop habits that irritate normal surroundings making it difficult to get along, some even develop habits and offend the others to carry out their habits, and some develop a likeness to events and practices that have sensations “apparently†that is not sensational around civilized environments.
Fred and Ann- you’re killing me with your comments. What does the behavior of the deceased man’s father have to do with him being murdered? Not just murdered but beaten to death by people sworn to uphold the law. Which is not meant to limit their effectiveness but to protect all of us as citizens of this great experiment called the United States of America. I hope that if you ever have to experience anything similar that you receive more empathy than you are willing to give.
My condolences to the Thomas family. I am truly sorry for your lost, for I was almost murdered in the same fashion, in the same Orange County California; just four months prior.
On March 9, 2011 several Police brutally ordered a K-9 to attack an unarmed, California Registered (RN). The California Highway Patrol (CHP) in Orange County then attempted to cover up the incident.
Malik King, a reportedly Licensed Vocational Nurse (LVN) since nineteen and RN since twenty three, is said to have initially attempted to steal a car. Later, it was found he was the owner of that Mercedes. What ensued next on the part of several officers goes well beyond the bounds of simply trying to subdue their suspect.
The several police officers ordered a police K-9 to attack him while he was still fastened in his seat-belt; tasered multiple times while the K-9 attacked for over one minute and thirty seconds, then hand cuffed, slammed to the concrete, hog tied, beat and kicked in the head until unconscious. He was then taken to jail, accused of multiple felonies, and had to pay $50,000 for bail.
Despite witnesses and the clear brutality of the beating, kicking, tasering, and ordered K-9 attack, California Highway Patrol allowed several officers to remain active and attempted a cover-up.
Violations of federal law occur when it can be shown that the force used was willfully “unreasonable” or “excessive”. By signing this petition you agree that “unreasonable” or “excessive force” was used on Malik A. King on March 9, 2011 in Orange County, California.
The beating of Mr. King is sickening and disturbing. The police involved in the beating and cover up must be brought to justice. Tell Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas to thoroughly investigate and prosecute the officers involved in the brutality of Malik A. King,LVN,RN.
Respectfully,
Malik King,LVN,RN
The worse issues I have seen that play hand and foot in situations just like this are the issues of drug use and alcohol abuse, some say it is a controversial treat that is controlled by the law when it is actually a death dose of hell that is tried and shared amongst all trying to create the sensation that most achieve from practicing ethical mores and accomplishes
Autopsy showed no drug abuse nor alcohol. The video clearly shows how sadistic people can be if it was up to me people that murder should be treated equal meaning they get a beating or get shot the same way they killed and see if they like it. My heart goes out to his family. Mentally ill or not resisting arrest or not this man didn’t deserve this. But these police men every single one need be in prison. They could’ve attempted to stop these 2 main officers invovled and did not. Clearly from the video this man was not a threat and they coulda handled it better. I hope karma is a bitch because that was someone’s life someone’s child and no one deserves that
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