A police officer only needs to use “reasonable force” to make an arrest. How many Fullerton, Calif. police officers does it take to arrest one man?
Well, it took five patrol cars, 6 officers, tasering 37-year-old Kelly Thomas numerous times, and beating him so badly that he went into a coma. And then died a few days later.
What was Thomas’s alleged crime that resulted in his death? Breaking into cars, looking for things to steal.
Welcome to our more violent America, where citizens stand by while the police beating took place, too afraid to intervene and save Thomas’s life. Is this what we’ve come to?
Kelly Thomas was a long-time member of the Fullerton homeless community, and apparently had schizophrenia. While sometimes scary looking (as not bathing and not having access to regular changes of clothing and grooming accessories does to many people), people on Fullerton Stories mostly remember Thomas as a “quiet and polite” man, someone who was “gentle and childlike.” But of course, untreated schizophrenia can result in strange and unpredictable behavior — behavior that some might take as threatening or hostile.
Gawker has the story:
Thomas — who suffered from schizophrenia, and was homeless — caught the attention of the police after someone reported that a burglar was breaking into cars parked near a Fullerton bus station. When officers approached Thomas in the depot parking lot and tried to arrest him, he resisted.
So his apparent crime was breaking into cars. Why do you need to use such force against a common thief?
To me, this is just another example of poorly trained police officers who immediately jump to conclusions about a person — “He’s homeless, he must be drugged up, he must be looking for his next high, he won’t know what hit him” — and let the chips fall where they may.
What police are forgetting is that nowadays, people are everywhere with their camera phones and other video recording devices. They can no longer hide behind their paperwork and “let’s all tell the same story and stick together” mentality — the video will tell the truth.
And while the person who shot the video below was way too far away to actually shoot anything happening (even the distant sounds are hard to make out, especially over the running commentary by the person shooting the video), it’s still pretty interesting from a perspective about the psychology of a small group of citizens looking on to a show of force by their own police.
Here’s a small group of people who, from their comments, are pretty clearly upset and adamant that the police are going too far in this situation and beating a single person — 6 against 1. But instead of forming a cohesive group and bringing their concerns to one of the officers, they stand back, far away from the action with a “It’s none of my business” mentality. The group is afraid — fear keeps them back and nonconfrontational.
This may also be an example of the power and pull of authority on groups of people, as illustrated by famous experiments such as the Stanford prison experiment by Philip Zimbardo in 1971 or the Milgram experiment by Stanley Milgram in 1961. We may be inclined to obey authority figures without question, even when doing so goes against our own personal morals and values.
And, after all, if our own local police department can do this to a man — a man who was doing nothing more than allegedly breaking into cars — what might they do to me if I try and intervene on another human being’s behalf?
An investigation into the six officers behavior has been opened by the district attorney’s office, so only time will tell whether “reasonable force” was used in this situation. But by all accounts, here was a man who was mentally ill who didn’t deserve to die for his crimes.
Video of the incident (taken from afar):
Witness who saw the beating describes it:
“They kept beating him and Tasering him. I could hear zapping, and he wasn’t even moving,” said Turgeon. “He had one arm in front of him like this, he wasn’t resisting. And they kept telling him, ‘He’s resisting, quit resisting,’ and he wasn’t resisting.”
Interview with Ron Thomas, the man’s father and a former sheriff’s deputy:
Read the full article: Police Beat ‘Gentle’ Homeless, Mentally Ill Man to Death
Photo courtesy of The Fullertonian.
195 comments
I feel more shock. What is wrong with Police? They are supposed to help them out of trouble not beat to death.That situation is not new i am telling that any police are monster.
Hope the police chief stop receiveing money from taxpayers. Those offices involed beating the homeless man should be “on leave” without taking a peny from taxpayers while they are under-investigation.
I do not trust the police.I used to admire the police when I was a young girl and a young woman.I have been wearing rose colored glasses when it comes to the police.The police hate and despise homeless people and they hate people who are poor.The police are the enemy of the people and so is our government.
Shame on Fullerton Police that did this… Serve and Protect??This Breaks my Heart…and Shame on his Dad…why was your Son Homeless? and how sad he was crying out to you.
And they are making you a offer of Money to you? You as his Dad and in your Sons Memory need to Give it to the Homeless. Shame on you. I would not be proud at all.. or have anything to say if I was this Dad.Kelly I am so Sorry I know now you have a home in Heaven and with God your Loving Father and when you cryed out Dad thats when your Loving Father brought you Home to Heaven. We all need to be a part of change for the Homeless
He was homeless by choice. He was an adult that didn’t want, nor take, assistance with housing. His family tried. Shame on YOU for prejudging Kelly’s dad, although, with the religious tenor to your comment, I understand why you feel you can.
He wasn’t homeless by choice idiot, he was mentally ill
Shame on you, jayni, for chastising a grieving father. You have no idea what you’re talking about. I live here.
Kelly was “homeless” because he suffered from schizophrenia, which caused him to choose to be homeless. Read the article, don’t just post blindly.
The father was offered $900,000.00 by the City of Fullerton and told that it would have been greater, but that his son, “wasn’t a rocket scientist”, or the offer would have been for more money.
Kelly’s father told them basically, to “stuff it”, and that the only compensation he would accept for his son’s death was murder charges on those 6 police officers.
Those 6 officers are on administrative leave with four of them on “desk” jobs, which could include working with prisoners.
This is the most, vile, disgusting thing I’ve seen in a while. The only thing equally disgusting was two San Bernardino Sheriff’s Deputys tasering and killing a man in Rim Forest, recently. They were still tasering him while he was DEAD.
Don’t post unless you know what you’re talking about, please. You have no clue and your opinion, therefore, is not valid for this discussion.
Seji,
You didn’t SEE anything. Of course he was screaming. Did the police over react? Perhaps. Have you ever tried to fight a crazy peson? His size and weight have no bearing on what happened. Police have been trained to swarm resisters with multiple officers to avoid injury to everyone. A one-on-one fight could have also been disasterous for everyone. Let the investigation continue so justice can be done, but don’t pre-judge all who were involved.
Buck
You’re forgetting Douglas Zerby? He was murdered by shotgun blasts by Long Beach PD in December.
Cops had surreptitiously observed Douglas for ~20 minutes before deciding to assassinate him…for sitting on steps while holding a water spray nozzle.
3 departments, 3 innocent men murdered by police and no prosecutions. How many more must die before I do something…before “we” do something??
Some ‘loving’ father, guess he wanted this dude to suffer by being tased repeatedly and beaten to death! A ‘just and loving’ god for sure.
Larry you are an idiot!! So the dad caused the cops to murder his son huh? And how dare you use the Lords name in vain? God didn’t do this to Kelly Thomas, those evil, sadistic, hateful officers did! You need to spend some time in church because clearly by your stupid comments, you haven’t been! I pray for your ignorance to go away and for the Thomas family.
Larry,
You didn’t see anyone being “tased”. He was likely being drive stunned, which is much different in that it only has an impact on the area directly contacted by the “TASER”. The term taser is frequently misused, as you are misusing it now. Being stunned merely causes quick pain in a central area. It does not travel through the body. Again, lets not pre-judge without the facts. Our friends at 640 are causing enough damage.
buck, it’s a documented fact that the use of ecd’s can cause cardiac arrest (http://articles.cnn.com/2010-03-03/justice/taser.cardiac.arrest_1_taser-international-ventricular-arrhythmias-cardiac?_s=PM:CRIME) or cns/brain injury (http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/brain-and-behavior/articles/2009/03/16/taser-stun-guns-can-cause-brain-injury), not just isolated “quick pain in a centralized area,” as you state.
Jayni Anne-Anyone who has seen the video of the murder of Kelly Thomas has had a dagger in their heart as he is defenseless and his inner self can only call like a child for his dad.This hurts because what we all witnessed was a child being murdered.He was a son,a mentally ill human in a man’s body.Don’t be so quick to blame his dad.Homelessnes wears many hats. An adult has rights,and it’s not that easy to over ride his/her rights to force them to live at home with parents.Parents have little rights against the person’s will to not live at the parent’s dwelling. The state of mind of someone like Kelly Thomas is unknown because mental illness is not cut and dry,it is more complex.Kelly Thomas may have chosen to maintain his independance from his father’s home and without knowing more,may have tried to be productive in society but had too many things against him. We are not to judge without knowing the circumstances.Being the child of a police officer is in itself a difficult thing in most cases.His dad may have expected far more than Kelly could achieve and likely didn’t understand the things going on in Kelly’s mind. He was using medications.This is part of the problem of treating mental conditions. The drug can be contributing to the state of mind in a negative way.The human mind is fragile,it breaks easily.Some are stronger and can fend off the things that cause pain,some break. Pain,emotional pain is the core of many minds fracturing.Society adds to the personal pain experienced with standard,one size fits all,expectations of others. That just is not realistic.We are individuals,and each person’t experience is unique to them.This is also why one pill fits all doesn’t work.
The doctor here, Dr. Grohol mentions the Standford Prison Experiment,I believe you can view it on youtube. Coincidently, that has been coming up a lot as a reference point to other acts in the news.Watch the video and pay close attention.
What a lot of people are not fully addressing is the vile,brutal behavior of the police involved in the murder which happened in plain view of many who were conditioned to not get involved.These police officers should have been psychologically tested for this homocidal tendancy.Also, I would almost bet,they were/are on some type medication or steroids. This is the effect of some drugs. I don’t care if they got them from a doctor for anxiety or if they got them from a steet bust or wherever. It’s hard to believe that normal people go out and kill in a pack like wolves attacking a lamb.
This is so tragic on many levels.God help us all.
Jayni–you clearly don’t understand schizophrenia and its manifestations. You cannot “blame” the father for his son’s reluctance or inability to remain at home. You don’t seem to understand that options are limited for those diagnosed with mental illness and those who love them and try endlessly but often futilely to help them. Please withhold your judgment about the mentally ill and focus instead on the overreaction of the police in our community and the need for all of us to remedy safe housing for the homeless and the mentally ill.
Jayni Anne,
As a father of an adult son with schizophrenia,I would never judge his father. I went through N.A.O.M.I. classes and realized that I as a caregiver and my son as a consumer, both have responsibilities. Most mentally ill people are dual diagnosed, with more than one illness, the other usually drug abuse or alcoholism.
We can only do so much and I personally know that any additional money I give him he will not use for food, but usually for lottery tickets or scratchers.
I’m glad that my son is highly functional and receives Social Security assistance, although that has been reduce. He lives in a group home, in a not so great part of Long Beach, Ca.
I am a resident of Fullerton, Ca. where this horrible and inexcusable torture and murder took place. I know his father, an ex-sheriff deputy wishes his son was still alive, as we all do.
Police need better training, especially in how to use non-lethal force and restraint, as well as training in the symptoms and miss-conceptions of mental illness.
How dare any of you point a finger at his father like that. Kelly suffered from schizophrenia, and there is only so much a parent can do to help a child in that situation. I am certain his parents mourned and suffered over the problems their son faced and did all that they could to get him help. They are grieving, and it is inconceivable that you would try to make them feel guilty over something they could not control.
this crime has nothing to do with kelly thomas’ dad there was nothing that his dad could do to stop him from being homeless, this story is about a man who happens to be an officer of the law who is full of rage and anger, who is not capable of controlling himself, to the extent that he could commit a crime and think he is ok…that he did nothing wrong…so if in the end kelly’s father is given money or whatever and what he does with it, has nothing to do with this story…
I am with you.I know that the man is in heaven with our heavenly father.I know he is warm and safe in God’s loving arms.
Serve and Protect? where is the Hope for the Homeless? Brea is just as Bad they show no care at all for the homeless.Where was Kellys Dad? now he shows up to say a word? give the money that has been offered to you and give it to the Homeless In Memory of your Son Kelly. Take the offer and build a Home for the homeless.
Why did you have your Son Homeless what kind of Dad does that? and the saddest thing he was crying out for you…How does that make you feel Dad?
Does Police have feelings? Are they robots? They treated Kelly Thomas just like a bunch of wolves hunting a lamb. Horrible! The truth is that situation is not new, then the question is who gives them right to do that? Before they became police, they just like us. Is there something wrong about the system?
The real issue is not police brutality; it is how those suffering from a mental illness are cared for by society. Thanks to the LPS act in California, society turned their back on the mentally ill the latter part of 1969 and in the name of “Liberty†never looked back. Many of the attempts to correct this deficiency such as Laura’s Law, AB 1421, has been met with major and sustained resistance by our politicians.
Just look at the politician’s recent grab of Prop 63 funds. These were supposed to be used to develop new and effective programs for treatment. Now they will be used just to maintain the failing system we have.
In my opinion, the doctors, lawyers, courts and especially the politicians failed this individual. In their failings, all of Kelly’s problems were thrust back on six police to handle. As the police were the most visual in this circumstance, they will bare the brunt of public judgment.
However, if you really want to understand why this happened look beyond this specific incident into the overall mental health treatment in California.
I’m sorry Sir, but you are dead wrong. All the info you provided is no doubt accurate, but that is clearly NOT the point. The issue at hand, the thing that was witnessed and taped, is what is at hand. Did they handle this correctly, yes, or no, or maybe a bit of both. And now, we need to see how the system polices itself. Recently, a friend in court faced a judge, who saw the evidence that a police officer had made an error–the judge totally agreed that my friend had not made an error (a ticket) and then said “but I won’t side against one of MY officers. What? MY officers? What happened to the fact of law that the judge is supposed to stand as neutral between law enforcement and the community? And what will happen here? Don’t hold your breath waiting for the denizens of “the law” to actually FOLLOW the law. This was taped, this was wrong–hey, once a guy is unconscious and you keep beating him, you are a monster, not a cop. But let’s see if a judge allows “his officers” to go down for killing a man in cold blood–don’t count on it.
Unless you can recruit JC as a police officer, no doubt police officers are going to make mistakes. You can count on that. Police departments have to recruit from the human race.
You want your pound of flesh, your revenge. I want to fix the system so we do not have to read about other Kelly Thomas’s in the future.
As I previously stated, society has turned its back on those living with a mental illness, and society has done this in the name of “Libertyâ€. In other words, you have the constitutional right to live a psychotic life, as has been stated over and over by my brethren. As such severely mentally ill individuals will have more and more contact with the police, rather than medical doctors.
As one who knows, I can tell you that are jails and prisons are full of those living with a mental illness and their number is only increasing.
One of the articles I read about Thomas, “He was homeless by choiceâ€. Yea, right. I believe that as much as I believe that 6 police officers setting out with the sole intention of killing Thomas.
this person should have never been on the street to begin with. The numerous contacts with police and his criminal history should explain that. Not excusing officer behavior, but let the investigation take its course.
“Welcome to our more violent America, where citizens stand by while the police beating took place, too afraid to intervene and save Thomas’s life. Is this what we’ve come to?”
You are right. Every one is afraid because they would beat you to death. And trust me after a long investigation, they may walk away freely, and you may be charged intervening official business.
I would consider this murder – wouldn’t you?
I would consider that the incident be investigated before people like you come to premature conclusions.
1.) police contact with a mentally ill person
2.) police failure to recognize mentally ill person as such, and failure to use tactics appropriate for the handling and containment of mentally ill person
3.) resulting in mentally ill person’s demise as the direct result of his contact with police.
seems simple enough…
there investigation should begin at the top,what is wrong with that so called chief of police he has to know how his oficers are acting im sure there have been complaints filed against some of them unless like allways they get put in te round file better known a te trash can.i dont think the old chief MCKINLY WOULD HAVE ALLOWED THIS TO HAPPEN.
IN THE PAST YEAR I HAVE WITNESS THERE OFFICERS HARASS PEOPLE IN THE DOWNTOWN AREA BIG TIME,I RECALL A OFFICER GIVING TICKETS TO BIKERS FOR ILLEGAL HELMETS,LOUD PIPES AND STEREOS WHILE SITTING IN THE ALLEY BEHIND HEROES IN THERE PATROL CAR PROFILING THE BIKERS AS THEY COME DOWN THE ALLEY TO ENTER THE EATERIES THERE IN THE AREA.ONE OF THEM GOES BY THE NAME “SAMMY THE BULLDOG” I GUESS THATS TO INTIMADTE PEOPLE DO TO HIS NEPOLIAN STATURE AND LOW SELF ASTEEM,WOULDNT BE SURPRISED IF HE WAS THERE WHILE THE BEATING OF THE HOMELESS MAN WAS GOING ON.WHAT JOKE THESE GUYS SHOULD FIRED.
If they used unreasonable force, they will be punsished. Most of what you describe are illegal acts, and the police are expected to address them. Don’t break the law, and you don’t have to worry about it. No excuse for excessive beating if that is what occurred. Let the courts decide.
Fullerton PD is despicable indeed and I’ve personally witnessed the horror! First, I was attacked by an Akita in Fullerton AFTER they refused to come out on a 911 call to help the ‘first’ victim. My son was also attacked, so they ‘allowed’ 2 additional victims after the initial person. Secondly my daughter (18 and tiny) was ‘slammed’ against the wall in her own house and had officer ‘Gibson’ pin her throat with his forearm, then arrest her. The reason they were there, she had ‘unplugged’ the phone in an attempt to keep her mom from chatting with her ‘boyfriend’. I HATE the Fullerton PD, especially that bastard Gibson!!!!!!
Well California, I just have one thing to say to you all, “move out of the most POLICED State in the country”! I used to live in Newport Beach, I moved out of California many years ago and I can say without a doubt, the State I live in now doesn’t treat its citizens like walking felons like California does! The police here treat you with respect even if you are wrong, they treat you appropriately. Californias State slogan should be changed to “Welcome to California, come on Vacation, leave on Probation”! Those Fullerton officers are murderers-felons and should be sentenced to death! Its about time the police are held accountable as are the citizens. Just because they have a badge doesn’t give them the right to abuse our rights and their power!
Where does werewatchingyou live?! I’ll pass out flyers to homeless!!
This isn’t a matter of training, it’s a matter of weeding out thugs during the hiring process. Unfortunately, the police force attracts people who are predisposed to brutish, barbarian-like behavior. You can’t “train” it out of them. As for the witnesses’ reluctance to intervene, no need to refer to academic studies to delve into the human mind. People call the police when there is a crime in progress. In this case, the police were the criminals. They had the guns, the tasers, the clubs and were obviously more than happy to use them. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.
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jayni, you obviously know nothing about this type of mental illness. shame on the police for doing this and the bystanders who stood around and did nothing.
I wouldn’t blame the people for not intervening. Maybe the case of a man shot to death for holding a lawn sprinkler nozzle sitting on the front steps of his friend’s house waiting for a ride because he didn’t want to drive while drunk just a few months ago is still fresh on their minds? Challenging these thugs will not do anyone any good. My best advice is for witnesses to take pictures, videos, memorize all and every details. But do not challenge them. They will shoot you dead on sight and then everybody lose!
i agree, all the video and pictures can make a big difference during an investigation. just don’t ever turn it in to any law enforcement agency. let things play out and once the thugs give their version of events, let them hang themselves if u have evidence to contradict their testimony.
This isn’t a matter of training, it’s a matter of weeding out thugs during the hiring process. Unfortunately, the police force attracts people who are predisposed to brutish, barbarian-like behavior. You can’t “train” it out of them. As for the witnesses’ reluctance to intervene, no need to refer to academic studies that delve into the human mind. People call the police when there is a crime in progress. In this case, the police were the criminals. They had the guns, the tasers, the clubs and were obviously more than happy to use them. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.
Jayni-
I agree with you completely.
I knew Kelly. He was a bright eyed and child like. I am pretty sure he had some problems but he was always very polite around me.
I will not rest until Kelly has justice. But on the other side, I am comforted to know Kelly is no longer in tears and no longer in pain. He is at home.
The homeless and the mentally ill deserve protection. Justice and mercy………….
I knew Kelly, I used to share my food with him at In and Out in Fullerton when I was in my 20’s. Just this Spring I offered to buy him a haircut, and asked him if he liked living this way, both to which I did not get a response for.
As far as Mr. Thomas (father)is concerned, shame on you!
It is my understanding you are/were in law enforcement yourself, and you would allow your son to live on the streets for so many years,(?WHY?),
especially when he needed mental health attention.
You are as much to blame for your sons death, so posting all those posters around the places he hung out (obviously you knew where he was on the streets), for sympathy, or something else?
I don’t know. It all could have been avoided had you got him the care he needed.
I know the hassles that he was responsible for in front of Ralph’s in Placentia. I know they called law enforcement on him as well.
Kelly was not a “bad” guy, he had a mental problem, as so many of us out here in California do, that was not being taken care of, and that is why he died.
Yes, Shame on the Cops!
Yes, Shame on Kelly’s father!
And quiet frankly, Shame on the county, the government systems, and the people who are responsible for voting all these crooks into office, who would rather spend our tax money on taking good care of the illegals for a vote, than a white citizen of this country with a mental problem… We are ALL responsible for that part! What a shame!
Shame on YOU for saying such ignorant things about Kelly’s father.
Once again the mental health community that works so hard to prevent people from mental illness from receiving treatment until after they become ‘danger to self or others’; the mental health system that sends the most seriously ill to the back of the line rather than the front criticizes law enforcement: the one group willing to help people with serious mental illness. The problem is not poor police training, the problem is that the guy was homeless and had schizophrenia and no one in the mental health system wanted anything to do with him. 3X more mentally ill receive “treatment” from prisons and jails than from public psychiatric hospitals.
The system meant to serve people with most serious mental illnesses has morphed into a system that only treats people with the least serious illnesses, and turned all others over to the criminal justice system. Families try and prevent that. Families have become the new institution: required to provide care but with no ability to enforce compliance, blamed by the public, but not given any help. Meanwhile the consumertocracy and government officials and SAMHSA work to prevent care until after people become dangerous.State mental health program directors show what a great job the are doing by publishing astronomical numbers of how many “people with lived experiences” they’ve helped, while no one confronts them for this unmitigated mission creep.
I agree w/nicole.
i hate the police. i would enjoy doing to them what they did to kelly
I would love love love for something happen to you and for you to call for help and have the police do nothing. Some bad apples get through into a uniform, that does not mean that all are bad. Society is not perfect, hiring practices are not perfect, background and psychological testing IS NOT PERFECT. But to say you hate the police? I hope no one is there for you when you need help and it causes you great pain.
This is not the first time the cops have been filmed beating someone AFTER they are unconscious. http://youtu.be/WQgVRysgIyY
If the initial reports from KFI are verified by the tape from the parking lot camera in the hands of the district attorney which has not been released, these cops should be charged with second degree murder.
That being said, the policies of the Left which give schizophrenics the “choice” to not take their meds and live on the street are responible for this and countless other tragedies.
Who is to blame? We as a society are to blame.it happen and nobody is going to do anything about it so it is going to happen again.and we are going to blame the next father let’s stand up together and do something enough is enough
I was at the vigil Saturday night and listened to Ron Thomas. The vigel was very respectful and was honorable to the family and to Kelly. What impressed me the most was just how articulate Ron was and how difficult it must be to be going through all this not to mention how he must feel about that his Son was killed the way he was. I am a father of a 17 year old son and 19 year daughter. I would be devestated if something like this ever happened to us. I can’t begin to imagine how hard it would be to discover my child had mental illness let alone to die this way. I can only hope that this debate and dialouge will bring something good so Kelly’s life and death will not have been in vain. On occassion I would cross paths with Kelly on the street. He was a transient – he was scruffy – he was “someplace else” but he was always polite – never asked for anything (unlike many other homeless people who frequent Fullerton) and he was a gentle human being. I never saw him create a scene nor intimidate anyone. People who are bullys – insecure and are unkind are bad seeds. When they hurt and belittle others they should be held accountable. If you are bully or are ill spirited, reflect upon this and consider your actions and the consequences. Kelly was someone’s child once and did not deserve to die this way especially at the hands of individuals who are supposed to protect and serve.
My condolences and prayers are with this poor man who was not only robbed of his mind (schizophrenia) but also his life.
I do NOT doubt that there is nothing but POOR training with the Fullerton officers. My reasons behind this is because I actually dated someone that was a part of the FDP. Long story short, bad breakup. He actually had his new girlfriend psychically assault me in public place 1yr later!! Unfortunately for them I had pepper spray 🙂 I filed a report and thank God the Det. from Anaheim saw through the LIES they put down on their report and sided with me. I would call & send emails to the FDP & they didn’t care. It wasn’t until I sent out letters to other police stations that he tried getting jobs at that he took me seriously. As a police offer you should uphold the peace and not START fights, lie on police reports or BEAT up unarmed ppl but I guess that is just my opinion.
so so sad
when you get killed by the police your death is in todal vain now if he was a black man we’ed have Al Sharpton throughing a fit over it BUT because he is white, BUT Screw Him say’s AL! I WANNA HEAR SHARPTON SAY SOMETHING POSITIVE ON THOMAS’S BEHALF, Just like Sean Bell, Amadu, or better yet RODNEY KING!!!
It says on Cop Cars “To Serve and Protect” it doesn’t say “Kiss my ass or I’ll KILL YOU! but thats how cops think if WE don’t bend over and kiss there PIG-ASS they kill beat the hell out of you and through you in a cage if your lucky Cops DON’T save lives they Ruin peoples lives and we are the ones that have to apoligise!!!! we are NOTHING but specs of sand to the POlice!
I got a call yesterday that this occurred in Fullerton. I was told there was a video and that it is “all over the news/internet”. I sat and read some details, then viewed the photo of him laying in his hospital bed, after the Fullerton Police encounter. I thew up. Watching any video… I don’t think I could process the injustice, so I will not. This man is not sitting in jail, this man was known to be mentally ill to the officers, this man…. is DEAD. I hope everyone stays true to the monster actions of the police officers and one Fullerton homeless man in this case, and leaves all the side storys behind, as well as judgements. The man was allegedly attempting to steal, was approached by officers, and end result: beaten to DEATH. Not maybe… he was. If anyone else did this, they would have been behind bars, that very night and sitting in Santa Ana jail… awaiting murder charges. The FBI is now involved, perhaps Justice will come. I can not shake the picture of him so badly beaten….by the hands of those in place to “protect”.
The article states that police thought he was burging cars. They didn’t see him do it, nor, did they have witnesses saying he did. They had no
Probable cause to even approach him!
This departments officers are routinely out of control, they are known for it. I have personally had the displeasure of encountering them and their treatment of me for suspected D.U.I. was so ridiculous and over the top that I can at times scarcely believe what happened to me. These guys are clowns. Dangerous clowns.
let the FBI do their investigation before behaving like a lyndh mob…the comments I’ve read make those who comment sound as evil as what they depict.
if for one moment you believe these officers are happy with the results – shame on you. they are men and women with families, religious beliefs, sons, daughter, etc, anyone who has ever been in a fight with one who is out of control knows how quick and dangerous an altercaton can be – shame the helf system and the parents for not giving this guy the help he so needed. funny how quick the $$$ and lawsuits come to play – cant even get through the moutrning process before the greed comes to play
THANK YOU Jim!!! finally a voice of reason. funny how almost everyone that is jumping on this band wagon seems to have a personal axe to grind with the police. if you have contact with the police, do what you are told. if you don’t, then don’t expect the police to treat you with kit gloves. you have already proven that you are a criminal just by virtue of not following a police command. that’s right a criminal! and since when is breaking into cars “no big deal”? I work hard to pay for my car and property. if some homeless guy wants to break into my car and steal my property then the police should arrest him. if he resists then he and he alone is responsible for his own actions. being homeless and crazy doesn’t exempt him from the laws that we all, as a society must abide by. this guy had been arrested MANY MANY times before. it wasn’t his first rodeo. he got what he asked for. as far as the picture of him in the hospital that his father so shamelessly posted for his own personal financial gain, i am not bothered by his “injuries” in the least. these were bruises and minor lacerations. bruises always look worse than they really are. have you ever seen a picture of someone that got hit in the face with an airbag?? this guy had no broken bones, and no fractured skull. one idiot even said he witnessed the cop hitting the homeless guy in the head with his flashlight. guess again einstein, the fpd uses plastic flashlights just so morons like you can’t accuse them of using their flashlight as a weapon. and by the way, all that taser noise on the utube video…tasers only make that noise when they don’t connect with the person. and whoever is leaving threatening notes around town, and you know who all of you are, you are the real criminals. you should be ashamed. this group of “crazies” is proving just how ignorant they are.
You are naive at best. Do you know ANYTHING about the homeless. I don’t know much except that there is a significant number of them who have mental health issues. To say shame on the family and the healthcare system for not providing the care you thought he needed shows just how incredibly naive you are about mental health treatment. I have no personal knowledge of the apparent lack of training the Fullerton police have on how to apprehend what THEY say was a resisting suspect. Regardless of their training, anyone with the slightest bit of common sense should know that you can’t approach a mentally ill person in the same way you approach someone who is not. FIRST mistake. SECOND mistake…..SIX!!!! officers. NO WAY! They outweighed him by HUNDREDS of pounds. There is enough evidence before an investigation even begins that these THUGS with uniforms on beat this man to death and should be charged with MURDER!! Because that’s what it was. Plain and simple.
Ann, You really concern me. I have never had any contact with police so I have no ax to grind. I’m just a smart person who is capable of looking at what happened for what it was. First of all it’s “kid” gloves. Secondly, there has been absolutely no evidence that he was the one that was actually trying to break into cars. We all want our property protected, but suggesting that a mentally ill person should be treated the same way as someone who is not shows me you are just as naive as Jim. Finally…are you JOKING!!!!! The picture depicts bruises and minor lacerations. UNBELIEVAABLE!!! You clearly have no concept of what YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT AND SHOULD NOT MAKE STATEMENTS ABOUT THINGS YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT. When I saw the picture of him I would not have known it was a human head if it weren’t for the ET tube (that’s the breathing tube, it stands for endotracheal tube) He was unrecognizeable and to suggest it’s no big deal and does not elicit any emotion shows me how heartless you are! This guy did nothing to you yet you are OK with him getting beat to death. No skull fracture???? How do you know??? Ever heard of a CHI?? That would be closed head injury and if you knew anything about were writing you should know a CHI can be just as lethal. It was MURDER. Plain and simple.
if you are an rn then you should know about what is called an autopsy report. no physical injuries that would cause death. you bleading heart liberals are all the same. if this guy was so helpless and harmless then why did his parents have a restraining order against him? and by the way, where were you when this guy was out there on the streets engaged in criminal activities and harassing average citizens? now your “group” wants to come running to his aid. hypocrits. if you really want to help a homeless person, then there are plenty of them that still hang out downtown. why don’t you go and pick one of them up and take him to your house. that way he will be safe from those murdering police and the rest of us will have one less homeless, non productive, angry person to deal with. ps thanks for the grammar corrections. you should be very proud of yourself!
Ann, You’ve seen the autopsy report?? Wow. “Bleeding” hearts and your welcome. I make it a point to be educated about what I’m commenting about. You have anger issues! How does having a compassionate view of a helpless person being beat to death make me ” a bleading heart liberal”? No I’m just someone who has had exposure to mentally ill people and know that you can’t treat them like people who are not. No matter how much you want to. Have you seen the video of the cop grabbing a person who was videotaping the incident throw that person around like a rag doll? There is a problem on that police force that needs to be addressed. Clear and simple. All I’m asking for is RESPECT and COMPASSION for ANYONE who is CLEARLY mistreated and in my opinion they should be prosecuted just the same as if YOU beat him to death. It was MURDER.
DONT DRINK and drive- YOU ENGANGERED OTHERS LIVES AND YOU ARE WHINING ABOUT NOT BEING TREATED RESPECTFUL?
While the incident is sad, there are still many unaswered questions regarding this incident. There has been info that officers suffered broken bones, but it is unclear if the suspect caused the injuries. Just because someone is kind and gentle one day doesnt mean they cant snap, especially mentally ill persons. One person can inflict damage upon several people very easily with a knife, gun, etc just look at the shooting of Rep Gifford in Arizona. I believe that young man also had schizophrenia. Maybe mental health professionals should patrol the streets and deal with the mental emergencies. Or maybe the mental heath workers should do a better job at controlling their patients issues to prevent future problems. Dont Monday morning QB the police without knowing all the details, and tell the story with an unbiased opinion.
First I am disgusted with those of you who have no clue about mental health. I am sure you do know a homeless man from a thug or gang member. This man is dead. Would you want the person who stole CD out of your car, or the change out of your ashtray DEAD??? You should be ashamed of yourself. How many times do you have to hit a man to kill him?? I don’t live in Fulton but if I did I would be outside protesting against the sick behavior of this police dept. SICK!
This person cannot tell his story – we will never know what was the truth here until the FBI investigates,…what you do know is that the police beat this person to a pulp ending in death. He was never asked any questions, he was never caught and cuffed, he was brutally murdered no matter what his condition mentally was. He is dead, murdered by 6 cops who are being protected for some reason…huge BS in the system here.
I don’t know what planet your on but the planet I live on I don’t care if any of those cops were hurt and as far as I know they weren’t what they did that man is a terrorist act, what they did to him is something you see on tv or on film. there is no reason for a person to do what they did it was murder, these are authority figures that we are to respect not fear.(people wonder why no one wants to get involved anymore). They come to our childrens schools and tell our kids if your in trouble call a cop or teacher, or any other authority figure, now what are they going to think. 4real get real they murdered that man without malice u need to open your eyes, the reason I say this is because they did this to me and now I wish I would have reported it, but didn’t for fear of re-precautions, and was doing nothing wrong they treated me as if I had murdered someone you have no idea how scared I was, and they kept yelling stop resisting, how can u resist when you are face down pepper sprayed 3 times point blank range and a cop has a knee in your back, sounds good looks good on paper but truth is they can’t stop once they start and from what I’ve seen the chips on their shoulders are like houses especially the short ones, I know from experience, and it is something no one should.
yep vicki i believe it they come from fear and hate and dehumanize you in order to justify their actions.. cognitive disonance has to occur and it is as if they are in a frenzy.. sort of like gang members when they gang up on an individual … very scary and so sorry you went through that..
Broken bones? Yeah probably broken bones in their hands. I am also disgusted that people stood by and watched the police beat a man to death.
Welcome to California Uber Alles. You asked for it you got it.
Fullerton has RETRACTED THE LIE about broken bones. That false tidbit was aired on all newscasts on this beating/death when it first broke on the news. Later, a full week later, the BROKEN BONES story was retracted, but not on the news. Reference: Times article.
Not only should the Fullerton police be admonished, but the Fullerton City Council for not promoting the truth.
btw mental health professionals due patrol.. I am proud to work in Los Angeles for a dept that does that… not surprised that this happened in the OC… reject cops that could be hired by LAPD… LAPD is far from from perfect but are on a great path and have been in training for years…. a comparison to jared Loughner who was premeditating and targeting for months cannot even compare to this homeless man… the OC cops acted out of fear.. ignorance and were/are stuck on stupid…. did he have a weapon or did they just hate what he represented that they had to destroy him and in order to do that they had to see him not as a human being but as an object that is to be thrown away… no humanity or thoughts that this could be someone’s son,father brother etc…. I am saddened and pained that we are still in pre-historic times on how we treat are homeless as well as our mentally ill… they are our family,friends and community let’s not forget that reality…
For the police apologists out there, I will just note that in the U.S., anyways, we don’t put people to death for an alleged burglary. Maybe that’s something more common in other parts of the world, but not here.
I hope we do get some clarifications and answers, because right now, there doesn’t appear to be any justification for the amount of force used on this individual human being. While I do understand a single person can be strong, I’ve never seen a single person be so strong that they can successfully fight off 6 trained and well-equipped police officers (except in the movies).
Also, we need to stop and remember — this wasn’t some nameless, faceless person. This could’ve been anydbody’s son… my son or your son. Wouldn’t we want our civil servants to respect their rights and act in a manner that not only recognizes the individual as a U.S. citizen, but also a human being?
While not a police apologist we have an ideal called innocent before proven guilty in this country. The officers involved are not guilty until evidence presented in open court is presented and a jury of their peers convicts them, not a minute and a half iPhone video.
We have no idea about the response times or what this known drug addict, alcoholic, deranged, convicted assualtive felon did before he was subdued. I know you ivory tower types who would’ve cried like babies and threatened to sue the police department if your luxury car had been broken into by this homeless man and they did nothing.
Until their is proof of malfeasance or misdeed shut your yaps!
I’m sorry… Did Kelly Thomas have the same “innocent until proven guilty” defense on the street where his death was foretold?
Hello, it’s guilty until proven innocent I know we want to believe the way but it’s not the laws are made to protect the monsters not the victims or if you are high enough up or have lots of money it can be shoved under a carpet. they are here to protect and serve, but who are they protecting and who are they serving
AMEN. this reminds me of a Lynch mob. why arent theyafter the parents for not making sure he was on the meds and had the help he needed. Even the parents has a restraining order – now they want millions before even grieving their loss – GREED
your off and wrong 6 to 1… are you one of those who cannot read or look at logic… may you never act weird… or be on any substance that might seem like you are drunk or ill or just weird because you too could find yourself in the same predicament and what will you say if your still around to talk about….
Do some research. They had him hogtied and continued to beat him until he DIED. Witnesses indicate he was sitting on a bench when approached, and he ran. What was his crime, really? There is no justification for this.
You are a fool, a troll or a Fullerton Police plant. No one, no one at all is buying the *.S. you are trying to feed us. It is a simple fact, a man is dead, he died as a result of a beating by 6 highly trained, steroid enhanced men. Did the suspect have a weapon? Was he holding a hostage? Was anyone’s life in danger? So, oh wise one, if the 6 Fullerton Police officers did not beat this man, who later died from his injuries then who did? Oh, that’s right, he tripped on is way to the patrol car and hit his face on all the offices fists. Please, try to peddle your mindless, party line somewhere else, cause none of us are buying it.
Give me a break. No details are known about weapons used by officers or the suspect. Have you ever seen anyone on pcp fight the police? The was an episode of “Cops” where a man picks a fridge up over his head and throws it towards the police. There are several persons that have bitten through hardened metal handcuffs. Autistic persons are also very strong and it takes severeal persons to control them. Officers dont know who or what they are encountering on every call. Hidden hands kill people and if you dont listen to cops orders then they have every right to use force to overcome resistance.
so lets beat them to death!! sounds good to me…..NOT!!!
yep seen many on pcp can take 2 maybe 3 but 6 really really???? and btw officers do have training on how to deal with that substance and many others for that matter… the cops should own up to their errors in judgment… we all do them they are no different especially in the position they are put in… it is unfortunate that someone had to die… and hopefully this is a lesson learned..
Just plain stupid or naive???? IDK
so… the cure for mental illness is having police kill them off. hmm…
Obviously, your many years of education have left you short of common sense. You have condemned these officers without the benefit of having all of the facts. This is exactly what you are claiming they have done. They get seconds to make a determination about someone’s state of mind. You are getting hours and in the case, days to evaluate the situation.
I have decades of experience in caring for people with mental health issues, specifically with clients determined to be a “potential hazard to themselves and those around themâ€. My own mother was bipolar with schizophrenic tendencies. I had the displeasure of watching six police officers try to subdue her because she was a danger to herself. I was 11 years old, yet I still had the wherewithal to understanding she was dangerous and the police were trying to protect themselves. They were also protecting me as well as my mother and the rest of my family.
I really don’t know what happened and neither do you. I know for a fact that some people with mental health issues get mistreated. I also know it’s very difficult to determine whether someone is on mind altering drugs or mentally disturbed. Again, you get hours and a first responder gets seconds to make this determination. I place more blame on the police that arrived later and didn’t intervene to calm the situation.
This guy was mistreated and you and I can agree on that. The police involved need to be investigated and probably punished. More so, those covering for these officers need to be reprimanded and possibly discharged.
Although you may not say it out loud, you seem to be using a rather wide brush in condemning police officers that are simply doing their duty. With all of my experience, I can’t look at someone and tell they have a mental health issue, a drug problem or simply an alcoholic within a few seconds Neither can you. Neither can they.
Don’t get me wrong — I both admire and respect police officers in general (see, for instance, this entry: http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2007/10/24/better-educating-law-enforcement-on-mental-illness/ ). There is no wide brush being painted here, only to those men involved in this incident in the Fullerton police department.
We’ve covered inappropriate police behavior before toward the mentally ill, and will continue to do so in the future.
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2010/03/17/mentally-ill-old-woman-tasered-for-refusing-to-move/
Tasers are repeatedly used in inappropriate ways by police officers (this is not new):
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2010/04/19/police-training-helps-treatment-of-mentally-ill/
The police are humans; they make mistakes. As you said, it seems as those arriving later on the scene should have been able to de-escalate the situation. For whatever reasons, that appears not to have happened.
I agree we don’t know all the facts yet, and I look forward to whatever the investigation determines “really” happened. What we do know was that a man tragically died, and the police were apparently directly involved in his death.
Thats a good point, maybe they should supposedly there experts at determining if someone is on drugs because they are trained to be so they can make that 1 second decision unless someone is pointing a gun at me or holding a knife and coming at me not running away my first reaction is not going to be beat them about the head until dead. Come on thats an excuse they are supposed to be experts at what they do do you know how long it takes to be a cop I mean a real cop not Bryman school 8 mos and tada give me a break.
how can you downplay a person that was beaten to death as “mistreated”?
i too am a family member with a father with the same illness and am a MH professional however you cannot discount that a 6-1 ratio is okay and you are correct as a first responder we can only go by what we see we do not know if this is drugs or psychosis or both.. and since this is not known a trigger happy mob of cops isn’t going to help… I know what you have experienced and lived but it is clear as day.. they made an error.. the police are trying to do their job i get that and unfortunately our systems are broken as you know so frustration and anger to get the nuisance and possible threat out of the way becomes the only goal.. and in this case it was tragic and very preventable tase him once, have two three cops subdue them… they have broken bones? thats part of the job like it is for us who work in this field who also get threatened and sometimes assaulted … hand cuff him call the pet team.. i know that happens and the end result is usually a hospitalization which was what he needed…
You can however decide if you are going to kill them or not. You can however decide that you are going to protect life and not give into your steroid fueled rage and kill someone, or am I just somehow off in my thinking?
I aam not a cop – simply a fullerton resident.
I am so tired of the hate shown towards the law enforcment personnel.
I had a brother in law – now deceased with similar
problems … he was a menace to his family and self. Unless youve lived with someone like that – you dont get it. I spent years of life threats, etc.
Someone with the young mans issues has strength most of you cant even fathom.
Shame on the parents – seeking millions already although even they had restraining orders against him…how quick the greed for money and not justice surfaces.
I don’t know you but you really need to stop. Each time you post it’s obvious you should have kept quiet.
So the group of citizens are trained enough to be able to tell what is and is not reasonable force? Sounds like they were obeying the law and not interfering with law enforcement to me. This article is hardly objective or empirically based. It’s just propaganda. And crappy propaganda at that.
What training do you suppose is required to tell when a man is being beaten to death, gangland style? Or is that simply beyond the normal citizen’s ken?
A textbook example of why the Founders gave us the Second Amendment . . .
In a just society, a number of armed bystanders would’ve intervened on Mr. Thomas’ behalf, using whatever force necessary to stop the assault and apprehend the criminals perpetrating it.
Sadly, we’ve been conditioned from childhood to respect the supposed authority of anyone wearing a costume and a gun. Nowadays, witnesses to such crimes can be counted on to simply stand by nervously, a few brave souls daring to record the event with their cellphones.
My prediction: rather than recommending that these men be treated as you or I would if we beat to death a man we suspected had broken into our cars, a cursory investigation will find that they acted “within departmental policy,” or some other such nonsense, and the whole thing will be swept under the rug.
Isn’t is more sad than the brutal death of this man,…that the people who are blogging all think that the system will protect these evil sick disgusting human beings who killed this young man and they will all get off. Well I believe in the system also, and the FBI will do an impartial investigation to the reason why they needed to beat this man into a death coma. Once he was down as the video will clearly show, he was incapable of fighting back – yet they kept bashing his head in and beating him. These officers are disgusting people and should not be allowed to ever be police officers EVER again in any state in America. Maybe they should try a country that kills its own people every day for fun…that is exactly what this was to them. Give me one good reason for this brutal display of torture. They never asked him or detained him to learn of his illness or the nature of his wherabouts – they just killed him…why ? because they could…?
Let’s hope not.
Just a little input…I know of someone who was out-of-control and needed 6 (yes, 6) police to get him down. He isn’t a very tall or big person, probably 150 lbs. Yet, it took 6 police. Even he admits it took that many–actually said it with some pride(?!?). When someone is determined NOT to be subdued, it can get pretty dicey.
Was he killed as a result? Or did he survive to tell his story?
I think that’s a pretty significant difference, don’t you?
The police need to see both hands to make sure there are no weapons. There were 50 people in the area according to witnesses. The police need to protect these people, as well as themselves. Kelley had one hand under his body according to witnesses. If he had cooperated and allowed the poilice to handcuff him, this probably would have ended differently. Kelley had been arrested in the past for assault with a weapon. It is a shame that Kelley died, but increasing the paranoia of people that may be confronted by the police is not helpful. My son is diagnosed with schizophrenia, but he tells me he always cooperated with the police when he has been arrested.
http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/tag/kelly-thomas-beating/
After reading the article “In Praise of “Rogue” Cops” (see link above), it seems that these officers could have been punishing Kelly for running away, and not respecting them. The officer saying “he is resisting” could be a euphemism for we have agreed to teach this guy a lesson. I would hope not! The idea makes me sick to my stomach! When the truth comes out, these officers need to be dealt with according to the law.
totally agree – if anyone thinks they killed him intentinally shame on them.
dont want to get beat – then dont fight!
and everyone wonders why crime is such a problem these days… cops cant even flinch without being accused. these cops were endangered – yes all six of them
You are a moron. It is there duty to protect and server, the public, NOT their egos! Teach him a lesson? IT is there beat, they knew this guy, he was a street fixture, they all knew he had mental problems. This was the actions of bullies, thinking they could do whatever they wanted to and get by with it, except this time they went too far and killed someone. The police are responsible for their actions and responses and wouldn’t you think that out of 6 cops one cool head should have taken control?
“dont want to get beat – then dont fight!”
to which i say,
want to be respected — don’t beat innocent people to death.
That’s 6 people who committed first degree murder.
Who wants to bet they will all get probation, at most.
Sadly, I bet that if you check back in 5 years’ time, all 6 of these officers will be working on police forces. If not in Fullerton, then elsewhere.
People just don’t care until it happens in their community, to someone they know. It’s like the Catholic church moving child-molesting priests around to different parishes. Nobody asked questions until it became apparent it was a system-wide problem.
Nobody’s going to ask too many questions about these officers’ background no matter where they end up, because that’s the nature of the brotherhood of police.
That’s why we have to speak out!!! Being a recovering Catholic, I couldn’t agree with you more! That is the reason I am no longer a part of the church. How can soething that HORRENDOUS be allowed to continue. Same thing here. We have to speak out so this doesn’t go that far. We have to learn something!
The system works as long as the people in it stand up for their rights and in this case you have to stand up for the rights of this dead man. If everyone was treated this way and allowed to get away with it…? What kind of community would we have? What kind of community DO WE HAVE ? Why should police officers be allowed to brutally beat a citizen to a pulp and not be charged with the crime of murder? It is up to you and me to make certain they all get what is coming to them also.
There is something very wrong with every aspect of our judicial system when you see this type of activity go this long without any consequences to the officers who best this young man. There was absolutely no reason this mans life had to be lost – even if he was guilty of the crimes the officers said they were investigating. This man posed no imminent danger to anyone – wrong place – wrong time. I think the officers who were involved should ALL be removed from the police force immediately and each placed under arrest for the brutal beating and death of a citizen – a mentally ill citizen. These police officers have no business taking an oath to “serve and protect” our community and acting as they did in this situation. This was a brutal slaying of a homeless, fragile man without his complete faculties. These officers did nothing to interrogate him, listen to him, speak to him, recognize his illness, before they inflicted unnecessary, lawless brutality ending in death of a simple, confused, harmless human being.
When he lay completely motionless, why did they continue to beat him and taze him? These officers need to be removed permanently from this police force and never be allowed to be a part of a community police force again – EVER. They should be brought to trial for killing this man and serve in jail for the death of this man. Wrongful death – brutal death – the penalty which should face each one of these officers should be the same as they inflicted. Why should we pay for them to be in jail for the rest of thier lives for brutally TAKING the life of an innocent man.
Thank you John for bringing this crime to the attention of more people.
Hey, I live near Baltimore, where back in January there was a fight outside a club, and when it ended, the police fired about 41 shots into the crowd and ended up killing an off duty cop who was reported to be trying to break up the disturbance when his peers showed up and acted like it was the OK Corral.
Last I read/heard, no one has had any sizeable consequences, but hey, it’s Baltimore, and what do you expect from a police department that has rogue or just plain inappropriate policemen/women acting first and not even interested to ask questions later.
Just google the cop who was recently busted for his involvement in a heroin ring. I have worked with police officers in my career, and I guess I have been lucky, they have all seemed to present in my office as appropriate, decent and ethical members of the profession. And one reason a good many have come in has been to try to make sense of unethical, immoral behaviors by colleagues.
Sort of the same question I ask of my profession these days as well.
Terrible story to read. And my comment is to prepare those who are directly involved in this incident that little if any consequences for those officers involved will play out. Because, hey, this was just a homeless psychiatric person.
Just remember one thing: the largest mental health care facility in the US is the LA correctional facilities!!!
How ironic after that above comment, the Baltimore Sun Newspaper runs this story tonight, just 2 days later:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-select-lounge-charges-20110804,0,1135701.story
Sad and yet not surprising to read.
And the police want the public trust in their work!?
For those of you who are saying wait for the evidence, how many times does it take for you to understand that the evidence is controlled by the “system”. The same people that create the problem. Why would we believe them ?. The fact is that the “system” is out of control.
I know many of you may not believe what goes on today since you personally have never experienced what an injustice feels like. This is understandable, as until you walk in their shoes you will never understand. So maybe you should “open” your eyes and listen to the individuals who are claiming that they have been violated.
We have cops that lie, beat innocent people, we have judges who do favors for their family and friends, we have politicians that do whatever you can imagine.
The laws of this country over the last 20 to 30 years are a portion of what is wrong today.
Public employees believe they are “serving” the public, what they are really doing is sticking it to us. Getting fantastic benefits. You are a bunch of hypocrites.
I wonder how many times the father of the beaten man in his employment as a Sheriff was himself directly involved with injustice to others? As I said many times before until it happens to you who cares.
I do.
When Kelly called out “Dad”, I have to wonder; was he asking for help, or asylum? You are right! So many unanswered questions. Kelley developed his illness at about 15 years of age, died at 37. Every episode seems to do damage to the brain. Medication is so important to improvement/self control. Most medications cause weight gain, I am guessing that Kelly was not taking his meds. I wish it had turned out better.
This is some crazy, messed up stuff. I hope answers are retrieved quickly! There is simply no excuse for this level of brutality. None!
I have worked with many formally homeless mentally ill patients at my facility. Several times I have restrained large males by my self or with one or two other people and I am an averege sized female in decent shape. Now I know there are some differences like my pts have medication and access to food. However this man was fairly small and malnutritioned and not on medications. Although the police may have had to use strong force at first and yes I know the mentally ill can have super human strength, they are still human. It doesn’t take a medical professional to see when a person is an inch from death and they can’t no longer fight back. The desperation of his screams from the videos on line is haunting.
Out of curiousity, were these cops veterans?
What is it going to take before the people of this country do something about ALL the wrongs that government has done to it’s people?
I have seen so much injustice in my life this is nothing new. These officers should be thrown in jail, lose THEIR pension, and be beaten for what they have done.
Police lie all the time, they manufacture stories, etc. They yell out “Stop Resisting” so that people around we believe the person is fighting back. Finally, Voting DOES NOT work. It is time for REAL CHANGE, not just lip service. Get rid of Public Employees.
All of those officers should be fired and lose any benefits. Fighting for his life looked like resisting arrest to them? Really? Everyone starts to look like a dirtbag to them because they deal with so many they cannot tell the difference anymore. Something need to be done. The police are turning into the very thugs they are supposed to be protecting the public from.
No. The police officers should no be fired or lose any of their bennies. What should happen to these animals tis they should get their asses thrown into the general population at San Quinton. …they wouldn’t last 1 hour there
The problem with these situations is that the police have decided that they are the judge and jury and have the right to decide the fate of the accused on-scene. They have decided that they are now the criminal justice system. This makes the police wrong in every one of these cases, period. The issues of resistance or obeisance, reasonable or unreasonable force, the criminal homeless, and proper police training are immaterial to the greater threat and instability these and the many other officers like them pose to our society.
These incidents will increase and as a result more police officers will die as the criminals become more desperate and the citizens become more incensed and more anti-cop. They are creating their own self-fulfilling prophecy.
Investigations mean nothing – the government investigating itself for wrongdoing – I am sure that will work out well. Simply publish the names and addresses of the police officers on the internet. Justice would be served in the same way that those officers served their version of justice, of this I am certain – and I personally wouldn’t lose any sleep if it were to occur.
Rest in peace Mr. Thomas.
You’re wrong about the cops lack of training Mr. Grohol, PsyD. The Fullerton Police in question are overly trained. Apparently you haven’t noticed the reluctance of the armed, uniformed, services to actually do any real fighting. Their policy is to use and apply overwhelming irresistible force through superior numbers and advanced technology. In addition to the nationwide policy of “zero tolerance” for law breaking, six cops beating one man into submission is “simply following procedure.” The Fullerton event is simply another example of a rising acceptance of cruelty, brutality, and violence in the society employing those police officers. The Enlightenment is dead Mr. Grohol, PsyD. Six cops beating to death a hapless, helpless, homeless, mentally ill “subject” was a dress rehearsal for the 21st century’s upcoming police and military contingencies. If you need further evidence I refer you to current events in Syria and other Muslim nations of late. Killing unarmed people is easy.
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