“I think I’m in love with my therapist. What’s wrong with me? What should I do?”
It is not unusual to feel strong feelings of “love” or affinity toward your therapist. But those feelings probably aren’t what you think.
Psychodynamic theory suggests the reason that many people fall in love with their therapist is because they are repeating emotional patterns they experienced as children toward their parents. This behavior and set of feelings was first described by Sigmund Freud who coined the term “transference” to describe it. He discovered transference after noting this many of his mostly-female clients would start describing their own romantic feelings toward him. In some patients, the feelings were not romantic, but instead more childlike and Freud took on a parental role in the patient’s mind. It was as though Freud became their father figure, and the tempestuous relationship would then play out in his office.
Freud described this process over a hundred years ago, and therapists and their clients still deal with this issue even in modern psychotherapies like cognitive-behavioral therapy. Because the process itself is a very real possible side effect of psychotherapy, although it doesn’t happen to everyone in all therapeutic situations.
Why Does Transference Occur?
Nobody can say for certain why transference seems to be a process of many people’s psychotherapy, regardless of the actual background of the therapist or focus of therapy. Goal-focused, short-term psychotherapy is no guarantee that transference won’t occur. Some cognitive-behavioral therapists, in their efforts to focus on empirically-based treatments, simply ignore these feelings when they come up in the course of psychotherapy. Others downplay their importance.
Transference likely occurs because the therapeutic environment is generally seen as a safe, supportive and nurturing environment. Therapists are seen as accepting, positive influences in our lives, but sometimes also as authoritative guides. In these various roles, a therapist can inadvertently step into roles previously occupied in our lives by one of our parents. Or a client can become infatuated with the seemingly endless supply of wisdom and positive self-regard some therapists exude. The effects can be just as intoxicating as one’s first love. In this increasingly detached world, someone who spends nearly a full hour with our undivided attention may become quite godlike.
Therapists may also represent an individual in a person’s life that provided the unconditional acceptance (and perhaps love) that we all seek from important others in our life. Our mother. Our father. A sibling. A lover. A therapist doesn’t ask for a person to be anything other than themselves. And in the honest emotional environment that’s so often found in the best therapists’ office, it’s easy to idealize (and in some cases, idolize) the accepting, caring professional who sits across from us.
I Think I’m in Love! Now What?
So you feel like you’re in love with your therapist and while intellectually you may understand that this is just a normal process of psychotherapy for some, you still need to do something about it.
The first thing to understand is that this is not anything you should be ashamed or afraid of. This type of transference is not an uncommon feature of psychotherapy, and these kinds of feelings are not something you can simply just turn on and off at will. Having these feelings for your therapist is not “unprofessional” nor does it cross any kind of therapeutic boundaries.
Second, talk to your therapist. Okay, I know this is the hardest step, but it is also the most important. Your therapist should be experienced and trained in transference issues (yes, even the modern cognitive-behavioral therapists), and be able to talk to you about them in an open and accepting manner. As with most issues in therapy, bringing it out into the open and talking about it usually is sufficient to help most people in dealing with their feelings. Your therapist should also talk to you about ways you can better understand them in the context of your therapeutic relationship, family history and background, and what kinds of things you might be able to do to help and reduce their intensity.
Third, accept your feelings and continue in focusing on the reasons that brought you into therapy in the first place. For some people, this will be easy. Once they’ve discussed the issue with their therapist, they feel relieved — like a weight has been lifted off of their shoulders. For others, the process may be more difficult and require that some therapy time be spent further discussing these feelings with your therapist.
I should also note that if a therapist returns your feelings of love in any form whatsoever, it is a breach of the professional therapeutic relationship and ethics. Professional therapists are trained to cope with their own “counter-transference” issues, and in the U.S., a romantic relationship between a client and their therapist is considered unethical and verboten. You should consider ending your relationship with such a therapist and talking to your regional ethics board about filing a complaint.
“Falling in love” with your therapist is sometimes a normal process of psychotherapy. It only means that you’re feeling positive, intense feelings for another person who is helping you with important issues in your life. Do not run away from these feelings — or your therapist — in fear. Talk to your therapist about them, and chances are, it will help.
585 comments
I want to add that if the therapist feels threatened, it is within the grounds of being ethical to refer the client out.
Bonnie, please seek out further help.
Beth,
Exactly to all that you said..also, remember, being referred to another therapist takes time..a week may be two..like I said Bonnie, you didn’t give the guy a chance..you can’t expect that in 2 days the whole issue was going to be resolved..your demanded from him more than he could give you..this is not unethical at all..in fact, you should be praising him for being there all this time for you and not just this one incident..it’s not fair to him Bonnie or to yourself..think also about all the good he has done for you..Allison, seriously, your comments are just adding fuel to the fire..like I said before, let’s focus on getting Bonnie help first before be tar and feather the “T”. DEE
Yes, Dee, I agree with you 100%. My concern is for Bonnie as well. Bonnie, if you come to the boards you can find me in the social groups “Issues relating to the termination of therapy” (I’m Brightheart) or just come to the psychotherapy boards. We can all offer our support to you in this. And I hope you find another therapist who can help you through this.
Bonnie, I can figure how you must feel. Maybe there won’t be a chance to resume yr meetings witht that therapist, but you could try and write him, and explain what it happened, that you didn’t mean to threaten him, but most probably you just felt so lonely. Even if this therapy has to end, it would do you good to leave it in a softer way, also to not jeopardize the work you have done so far. Please also try to seek the advice of another T (a woman, this time!)
Suicide isn’t the solution, though I have thought of it myself, when things seemed so bad.
You are not alone, we are here to listen to you and we simpathize with you unconditionally, independently on whether you have acted right or wrong. Be brave!
Allison, Thank you for being the only one who is supportive.
As for everyone else, there is so much that has transpired in that office between my “T” and I that are so unethical that I have not mentioned because I had wanted to protect him. But now it is ALL going to come out to the board. I gave him the benefit of the doubt because I cared about him. I asked him in my last session if he was going to transfer me and he said no. To not return my calls or give me warning in person or even the phone might not be illegal but it is unethical and unprofessional. And if he wants to be cold and mean about it then I will expose him for all he has done to me. Here are several examples to only name a few:
He monopolized 95% of our sessions, and when I tried to talk he would say, “Shut up and listen.”
When I said I had to go to the bathroom he would say, “No, sit down!”
He talked about his personal life and marital issues for over half our sessions making me vulnerable to his problems. Like complaining that his wife didn’t give him enough sex. Also telling me that he is a batchlor when he is still married.
Telling me that if his wife leaves him he will kill himself. Telling me if he gains weight, he will kill himself. I spend many nights awake afraid that he would kill himself.
He used the therapy session for his own emotional gain. I was his emotional prostitute and then he dumps me out the door. I dont think I would have had the courage to pursue him if he didn’t give me mixed signals. And by him telling me that if I wasn’t married and he wasn’t married and I wasn’t his client, that things would be different between us is also leading me on. Also, he told me that we could be friends after he moves. All this is unethical.
He also talked about his other clients to me, which breaks confidentiality.
I am not reporting him because he did not accept my advances. I am reporting him because he treated me cruelly by being so cold and not warning me. If he would have at least called to say that he did not feel comfortable seeing me anymore and that it is over, I would have understood. I would have left it at that. But the way he went about it is so dirty that I will be dirty too. He is not emotionally stable to be a councelor anyway.
Dee,
How can I have waited for things to settle when the first thing I hear about me not seeing him anymore is through his secretary telling me that I am not allowed to leave measages or see him anymore. I think I had the right to a phone call from him to tell me this himself. I am not a criminal and should not be treated like one. I am the victom here. Yes, he is only human and paniced. But it is his job to handle cases like this professionally. If he cant handle it then he shouldn’t be in this profession.
Dr. Grohol,
Any comment from you? You still out there?
Ps. I already talked to several councelors including customer service and they are all shocked at his behaviour. They all agree I have a case and that he has been unethical. They said that even if I tried to kiss him, he is the one that is responsible and trained on how to handle these cases with delicacy and grace. I did not hold him at gun point and rape him. I mearly made a stupid mistake. I regret it dearly. But as I can see in these blogs, there are many wishing women that would have tried the same if they only had the courage. If it takes my suffering to show them that it is a foolish mistake, then I suffer with purpose.
Bonnie – Your situation sounds so painful. Please call a crisis line to find out how you can get some help in dealing with these hurtful emotions. It seems you need to work this out with the help of a therapist, and maybe a crisis line will help find someone you can talk to in real life asap?
No one here can read your therapist’s mind-we can only guess and offer opinions and support. My opinion is that I really think your therapist felt his safety was threatened when you went into his office like that. It seemed he was willing and able to deal with your prior phsyical advance, but when you just entered his office like that-it seriously crossed a line. I’d be thinking, first a phsyical advance, then barging into my office, what next?
No one can know for sure what is best for you – except you – but I hope you do not file a complaint because I believe it will cause more harm to you.
If a therapist feels an immediate threat to his safety – how can he come up with referalls on the spot? I also think the other staff viewed your action as an immediate threat – and that is why you were not afforded the help of a supervisor. I think that is the issue. I would not be surprised if he mails you a letter with advice on referalls. I don’t see how he could have handled this (entering his office) differently if he felt his safety was threatened.
I’m so sorry you are going through this. I’d take the advice of another commenter who invited you to the psychotherapy forum from the Community link above. Please go there – vent, question – you will get lots of support. Please call a crisis line and find another therapist to talk to.
What you did was completely forgivable, it is ok. It is not ‘bad’, it was simply an err in judgement being you were so caught up in your strong emotions.
I think you will overcome this and learn a lot about yourself from the situation.
Do take good care and seek all the support you can to get through this. It is going to get better. You will feel better when you find someone appropriate to talk to, who can help you sort through all of this.
(((you))))
Hi Bonnie – I submitted my comment before I saw your last comment.
“Ps. I already talked to several councelors including customer service and they are all shocked at his behaviour.”
I am happy for you for being able to talk to councelors-that is good to hear. Just want to mention – it does not appear the issue was the kiss, but rather entering his office like that.
Please consider the harm it may cause you if you report him. His perceived rejection and how he behaves towards you-even indirectly in letters in response to the ethics board-have the potential to be very upsetting. I’m not sure how that process works, but I can imagine the correspondence you might see. It may be hurtful for you.
At least send him a letter first and allow him to explain, then go from there? I just think it’s unwise to make hasty decisions when one is experiencing emotional distress. Perhaps you could write him a letter, send it, then sit on that decision for a while – at least until you hear his response?
Bonnie,
This is what I am talking about..what P. said:
No one here can read your therapist’s mind-we can only guess and offer opinions and support. My opinion is that I really think your therapist felt his safety was threatened when you went into his office like that. It seemed he was willing and able to deal with your prior phsyical advance, but when you just entered his office like that-it seriously crossed a line. I’d be thinking, first a phsyical advance, then barging into my office, what next?
“Ps. I already talked to several councelors including customer service and they are all shocked at his behaviour.â€
I am happy for you for being able to talk to councelors-that is good to hear. Just want to mention – it does not appear the issue was the kiss, but rather entering his office like that.
Please consider the harm it may cause you if you report him. His perceived rejection and how he behaves towards you-even indirectly in letters in response to the ethics board-have the potential to be very upsetting. I’m not sure how that process works, but I can imagine the correspondence you might see. It may be hurtful for you.
Again, it wasn’t the kiss..just what you did afterwards…DEE
Dr. Grohol,
In response to your comment below, I am very confused about transference vs. feelings you would have that may “not be related to” transference. I’ve recently read alot about this concept, however, I think we experience equitable transference with our relationships with romantic partners as with Ts-it’s only more noticable/stronger with Ts. I’m starting to think there really is no difference.
So my question is directed to others opinions on this – is the transference with a therapist any different than the transference we feel when choosing or falling in love with romantic partners? I do see how the relationship is different – the inequality – along with, perhaps, enhanced intimacy. But sometimes I think the transference feelings on their own – regardless of the relationship power differential – are the same with therapists as they are in all of our other relationships. I just think such feelings are amplified in therapy.
I know several people who realized later their spouse had some quality that reminded them of their mother or father. Maybe unconscious to most, but it seems transference is just real feelings -regardless who it is with. It certainly is amplified in therapy though-perhaps because its also brought to our consciousness through the discussions (such as with psychodynamic therapy).
Anyway, I’ve had considerable interest in this topic lately because I am seeing a male therapist for the first time. I had always had female therapists in the past. And while I don’t have substaintially strong transference feelings with him, after reading numerous psychotherapy articles – I am personally scared of falling in love with a male T! It’s not as strong as a phobia that would cause me dysfunction, but it has been on my mind lately. I read about erotic transference too, and frankly, while this has never happened to me I am scared of this too.
But back to my original point – After reading so much about this through scholarly articles, and others’ opinions and comments, I am beginning to believe transference feelings are no different than non-transference feelings.
Looking for discussion about the concept of transference feelings, rather than the relationship power issue and not being able to act on it. So my question doesn’t relate to acting on these feelings-but more the concept behind the feelings. Are transference feelings really any different from any of our other feelings? How do we know that unconscious transference feelings don’t effect each and every relationship we are involved in?
How does everyone else feel about this? I’m interested in what others think here.
🙂
John M Grohol PsyD at 7:21 am on July 5th, 2009:
“Allison — I think it’s hard — if not impossible — to disentangle true love from the transference relationship. Hence the reason such feelings are common, but not expressed as you would in a normal romantic relationship.
Therapy can bring you very close emotionally to the therapist because of the process itself. Two people in therapy can often be more emotionally intimate than the client will be with most other people in his or her life. That intimacy can reinforce emotions that feel like love, but were developed from unequal partners — the therapist in power, the client in expression.
It may feel like romantic love, but it’s not returned by the therapist (unless the therapist is unethical or has issues themselves). It is an expression of the normal bonds of a therapeutic relationship.
Healthy romantic love needs to come from two people who start out on equal footing, with no power differential between them, and no professional environment that encourages and rewards emotional intimacy.”
It seems like most people commenting here are not reading carefull what I wrote. He cut me from any contact with him whatsoever BEFORE I went into his office. That’s why I stopped by. I know it was wrong, but I paniced. That is why I am upset.
Dee and P.,
How can I write or have written him when i mentioned that I was NOT allowed to even get a measage to him (this being before I entered the office).
My mind is set. I am reporting him.
Oh dear-Bonnie I am so sorry…I reread where you left the message and he did not return your call..
When I saw you originally pointed out him saying he wasn’t going to terminate the relationship after that incident, and he did not return your call – i had assumed that instead of waiting for him to call back, you just went to his office. Now I see you waited for him to return your call that never happend, then checking back later to be told he would not take your calls. Was there something you said in the messge you left him that would have alarmed him? I still think the safety issue re-going to his office was a concern, but before that-he should have returned your call.
I am sorry I misunderstood the details of your situation. I don’t agree with how he handled this either, based only on what you said here. It could be he was going to work this out with you but changed his mind after the session where your tried to kiss him, or it could be he was not comfortable telling you at that time he planned on terminating you. But regardless of what he thought, yes, I agree he chould have handled your situation differently. It seems he should have offered you a closure appointment, or if he wasn’t comfortable doing that he could have at least called you to explain what was happening. If he was still uncomfortable even talking with you after that – he could have requested for his supervisor to call you. But to just abandon you like that without a word?? That sounds so painful considering your feelings for him.
In any case, he could have and should have, I believe, given you some referrals and at least explained why, he could no longer treat you. At the very least-had his supervisor call and explain and give you referrals if he was not comfortable talking with you after the incident.
I’d still wait until your anger/hurt subsides before making a decision though. Not good to make decisions while feeling emotional distress-no matter what the decisions pertain to.
Hang in there. Best wishes to you.
P.K.
bonnie at 9:50 pm on November 6th, 2009
People,
Please dont try it. It didn’t work. I screwed up big time and now I am suffering. I usually get a hug once in while when I ask for it. I gave him a hug and then tried. He rejected me and said that if we both weren’t married and I wasn’t his client things would be different. I asked him if he planned on transferring me and he said no. I called to apologize and told him I was just panicing because I realized I am losing him and that I know it was selfish of me. That was Wed. When he didn’t call, I called back today and his secretary told me that he is no longer taking my calls and that my appointments are cancelled.
I know I have to react when I am indignant because that is the only time I feel strong. When the anger leaves there will only be intense pain and I will have no strength. I know he treated me like this because he thinks I am a pushover. He’s told me many times that I have week boundaries and I let peole take advantage of me. I’m just so tired of that being true. Before I tried to kiss him I told him I didn’t think it was a good idea to see him as often because I had urges to kiss him. He told me not to be embarrassed that nothing makes him uncomfortable and we can work through it. We never really did “work” through it. I dont see how he went from night to day.
I was walking this morning around my block, there is a church near my house and I was walking past it.He happened to be in my town. I was so embarassed when I saw him infront of the church. I looked the other way, but I can see him from the corner of my eye, whisper to some guys with him and run inside the church. I dont know why he is treating me like a freak. He is now slandering my name. If I am such a threat then he can stay the hell out of my town and neighborhood, which happens to be a real small town. He lives in a different town. He usually goes to a different church too.
To answer your question P., I was very apologetic when I had called after I tried to kiss him. I asked for forgiveness and said it would never happen again. He is giving me no choice. He has and had no intension of dealing with this in a civil manner, and now I might have a PPO against me which I will have to contest. It’s a mess. If he is going to take this to extremes then I have to protect myself. I cant just roll over and take it. I’ve been doing that all my life and I am sick and tired of not sticking up for myself.
Should he go on with his happy life as if nothing happened while I suffer for weaks and months over this? I think not.
I have made a decision not to participate in these comment sections anymore, but seeing how many people are still discussing this matter and how at least some of the commenters are having boundary issues, I’ll be hypocritical and submit a comment to hopefully at least make sure non-commenters reading here don’t get mislead:
As I have said two times earlier, there is NOTHING therapeutic or professionally responsible as a therapist to get emotionally or intimately involved with a patient.
Don’t believe me, just google Glen Gabbard, MD, and his work on boundary violations in psychiatry. You should get a plethora of links to give those willing to consider his perspective some pause and reconsideration to pursuing involvement with a therapist.
And, per an above commenter asking recently, where is Dr Grohol in this thread? In my opinion, it is time to shut it down, because, in my very limited assessment here, there is some serious characterological issues at hand that do not do this site any good.
I’ll end with this: if you were involved with a therapist and even if you intiated it, if the therapist responded and went further, he/she needs to be reported for ethical lapses in conduct. It will be up to the board of the state this therapist practices in whether there are grounds to pursue charges of misconduct/malfeasance/frank immoral or illegal actions, so just reporting it does not mean consequences will happen.
But, if you do nothing, nothing will happen, and a dysfunctional therapist will prey on others. Count on it!!!
I hope you will allow this comment to be posted, Dr Grohol, and perhaps respond to the players at hand here.
Sincerely,
skillsnotpills
Bonnie,
I understood what you said: you called him, waited 2 days for him to call you back, he didn’t call you back, you went to his office, his staff said he is no longer accepting calls from you and he was canceling his appointments with you, you then demanded some answers from him and that is why you walked into his office. He threatened to call the police etc, etc., I understand clearly what you said happened. I still stand by what I said: You handeled things very poorly and he felt threatened. Just because you were ready to talk about what happended (ie-the kiss), doesn’t mean that he was and for you to demand him to be ready when you wanted him to is unfair. Like I said before, you have made all this assumptions without waiting to see what his next step was. I gurantee you that he was probably in the process of referring you to someone else and would’ve contacted you. The man is trying to protect himself and I think that the reason you want to report him is because you are upset with him that he did not return your advances or that you feel like he humiliated you. Mistake or not Bonnie, the man has a right to end his work with you if he feels like his life is in danger which is what he probably thought. Just my opinion though. DEE
Bonnie,
I don’t think filing a complaint will be a good idea. You would not be able to prove anything unless you are pregnant with his child or have a “blue dress” ( Monica L ). You’re only going to hurt your self more.
Unfortunately, from what I understand now, your situation is not that uncommon. Position of a therapist comes with a lot of power. This power is commonly abused as long as a therapist is walking that thin line. He used you for some ego boost, just like Allison’s therapist does it, just like mine did…You, as a patient, should not be leaving a session thinking: ” Does he like me? Does he want me to make a first move? “. You should be thinking about stuff that you went to see him in a first place.
I can’t post anything for 2 days now.
I keep getting a message about duplicated comment.
Bonnie, your therapist felt threatened by you and so he terminated you suddenly. This isn’t unethical. He made no advances toward you, correct? Perhaps he doesn’t feel safe being your therapist. He is protecting himself, which as painful as it may be, is understandable from my perspective. I can’t tell you what to do, obviously, but please know that you are in the middle of a very strong transference reaction and are likely not thinking clearly. Feel free to PM me.
Hi, Dee, I originally had the same assumption as you, but that’s not what Bonnie had written. She wrote:
bonnie at 9:50 pm on November 6th, 2009
“People..I called to apologize and told him I was just panicing because I realized I am losing him and that I know it was selfish of me. That was Wed. When he didn’t call, I called back today and his secretary told me that he is no longer taking my calls and that my appointments are cancelled.”
She was terminated before she showed up at his office. Yes, I agree with you’re guess the therapist felt threatened later, but I also think it was cold and cruel to terminate her by not even telling her – especially after previously telling her they could work through the issue after her initial advance. Bonnie did not find out she was terminated until she simply followed up on the phone call message she left -2 days later – before arriving at his office unnounced. Again, her coming to his office crossed a huge line. Not judging, but observing and putting myself in Ts place.
But before she showed up announced? Geez, over the past couple of decades, I have had numerous men try to kiss me and make advances towards me -including coworkers and bosses. I simply said no thanks and the individuals backed away, apologized either at that moment or shortly afterwards, and those same individuals never did it again. If they had tried it again, disrespecting my boundaries, of course a different scenerio might have been played out. In fact, after some of those incidents, we became better friends having discussed the situation and getting to know another more in depth. It happened several times this way-we became closer, in friendship terms-not sexual.
I know trying to kiss him was totally inappropriate, but c’mon-at least call her back and explain he can’t see her anymore.
Of course, we don’t know his side of the story and maybe he led her on more than we know and now feels guilty about it and is trying to evade his personal responsibility in the matter by turning it around on her – making her look like some kind of criminal with a protection order from the police. That could be him covering up his role in the relationship gone wrong. If this theory were true, imagine her going before a board for an ethics violation – there he is with evidence Bonnie barged in his office – the supervisor a witness. He might have told whoever took the call, the person who told Bonnie he wasn’t accepting her calls-this woman tried to attack me, then ignored her thinking she would get upset enough to act out in a manner others would witness-then say-hey, look-I told you this woman was dangerous. I’m just thinking out loud. Of course none of us know.
What we do know is that Bonnie is extremely hurt by being terminated via ignoring. Sometimes ignoring someone in pain is worse than saying something mean to that person – its as if the person feeling pain isn’t even worthy of an explanation. I have had an abusive bf do that to me in my adult life – and it can bring up strong childhood feelings for those of us who have had childhood trauma. Ignoring from someone you’ve been in a relationship with for years is a form of emotional abuse-passive aggressive.
– P.K.
Dee at 5:58 pm on November 7th, 2009
Bonnie,
I understood what you said: you called him, waited 2 days for him to call you back, he didn’t call you back, you went to his office, his staff said he is no longer accepting calls from you and he was canceling his appointments with you, you then demanded some answers from him and that is why you walked into his office.
Skillsnotpills,
Why do you think this blog should be censored just because you don’t think its appropriate? While I can say it would be best to move the discussion of one individual to a support forum, that’s up to Bonnie and the owner of this forum. I don’t understand the benefits of censoring adults from this dialogue.
Meanwhile, people can learn from this. I have had several therapists in my lifetime-as naive as it may be-I did not know a patient could fall in love with a therapist differently from other people they meet in life, let alone what transference was.
I think it’s good for people to read about this and learn. I am glad I know about the risks involved and now know what boundaries to watch out for if I am feeling vulnerable. I am grateful for this blog I first read out of curiousity.
Thanks for the tip about Dr. Glen Gabbard’s work. I googled him like you said and am interested in his articles. Thanks also for the information about boundary violations.
I really emphathize with therapists-their job seems tough and emotionally exhausting. Personally, I could not be a T. However, they really have the potential to brutally harm patients. This isn’t the first time I’ve heard stories of this nature. I’ve heard stories of patients hurting Ts as well-they are broadcast in the news. Each time a patient gets hurt, the incident is not broadcasted-is it? So this is good place to discuss those situations. I wonder how many go unreported.
Hi folks… Sorry, but at 370 comments, this is the longest thread we’ve ever had on the blog and it’s been impossible for me to keep up or follow. Sadly, I’m the sole guy responsible for keeping our little site running which means that I don’t always have the time I’d like to keep up with conversations such as this one.
However, I will affirm that we will not censor people’s comments as some would have us do, or shut down the conversation just because some professionals have a difficult time with the messy reality of people’s lives. Boundary issues tend to be very clear to professional but far less so to ordinary people who see them.
Also, since this is blogging software and not a discussion forum, it can be challenging to have a complex, ongoing conversation and support in this thread. I’d encourage those of you who would like to continue this conversation to please feel free to do so in our forums, specifically our Transference and Feelings Toward My Therapist forum (specifically setup for just this topic!), where we’re more happy to host threads on this topic (in a more easily readable format):
http://forums.psychcentral.com/forumdisplay.php?f=108
P and Skillsnotpills,
Thank you for your comments and support. I need support more then advice right now. I know what I need to do and nobody can change my decision. No one really understands fully what is happening to me. I am in a small town and unless you ever lived in one, you can not truly know what it feels like to be dodged by your “T” every time you see him at the grocery store or at church or the gas station, while on lookers stare and wonder why you are a threat. I have the right to be treated with dignity and respect.
I know that it is difficult and almost impossible for some people commenting who have such strong transference with their therapists to see that I am seeing clearly now. I truly feel like I dont love my “T” anymore. I can truly see how this was transference and not real love. Now that he has removed himself, I can see clearly like Skillsnotpills said, that boundaries where crossed. It is always the person in authority who is responsible for how they handle it. I also feel that allowing to be embraced by your client can lead to things like being kissed, which is why I tried.
I am going to be leaving this thread now. I am not emotionally prepared to have to continue to defend myself from those who want to judge and not support. So, I will be back in a month when all this is underwater. I agree that this thread is taking up too much attension.
It is very unfortunate that you ended up under an attack here, Bonnie.
Bonnie
I’m so sorry to hear this. I think him not returning your calls was extremely unprofessional. How can he treat a client this way? Someone that needs help? How could they tell you to leave when you’re suicidal? That man needs a kick in the balls.
I can’t believe how people are attacking you. It’s also funny that people think this should be shut down. I think this blog is extemely helpful for us to tell our stories.
again, sorry Bonnie and (((hugs))) for you.
It IS unethical for a therapist to drop you without notice. A therapist *supposedly) is trained to handle ANY situation…sit down calmly with the client and discuss it. If he feels he must refer you to someone else he/she is supposed to give you x amount of time to process what has transpired, give a date of termination, etc…
Your t was using you to be his caretaker. Unethical. Talking about killing himself??!! Scary unethical. Sharing stories about other clients. Unethical. Leading you on with veiled comments. Unethical. Terminating you without the proper time-frame. Unethical.
The only way a therapist should terminate you immediately, is if you are a threat to him or yourself (or others).
((Bonnie))…I am sorry you were attacked. Clearly some do not understand.
Love, Allison
Bonnie,
I am sorry if you feel like anything I have said hurts you. This is not my intention. I do feel for you very much and I understand that this must be a difficult thing to go through. Remember, I went through something similar, only I got to a point where I just couldn’t take it anymore and it ended before I could do anything really stupid and believe me I was capable and almost there. I understand the desperation that drove you to do what you did and I understand how bad you felt afterwards. Bonnie, I do support you and what you are going through. Afterall, we are all here for a reason. Forgive me if I am giving you the impression that I do not support you as I really, really do. Having said that, all feelings aside, my thoughts on the what happened come from a place of perspective. In a nutshell, all I am trying to say is that things transpired the way they did because you crossed his personal boundaries. Ethical or not, he just couldn’t deal with it. Point blank. Perhaps at first he promised you that he would discuss “the kiss” incident, but afterwards he changed his mind. I imagine he had time to reflect on what happened, got scared, couldn’t deal with it and then canceled everything with you. Let’s say he made a mistake also, but I don’t agree with what Allison said that therapist’s should be able to handle everything and anything. For one thing, it was not your time with him when this incident happened (the office thing) and secondly, he was not prepared. Therapy works for both Doctor and patient when there is time to reflect between sessions. This is why, we usually only see them weekly or biweekly, discuss what happended last session and begin reflection on how we are now doing. Anyway, Bonnie, it’s unfortunate what happended, but I encourage you now to focus on yourself, getting better and getting on with things. God Bless. DEE
I was sexually involved with my therapist, and it has pretty much wrecked my life. It has been next to impossible to trust other mental health professionals. It doesn’t help that I have to fight this stereotype of woman as seductress. It’s always assumed that the woman started it. In my case, my psychiatrist started it during a therapy session when I was deeply depressed. He was talking with me about self esteem, and came and sat beside me on the sofa. He took my hand and quietly told me he liked me. He asked if I liked him. I didn’t answer. I went home confused as to what he meant. Was he trying to make me feel better? Was he starting something? I ignored the signs because like usual I thought it must be me being my usual over sensitive self. Each session he pushed the boundaries a little more, until he crossed the line with me completely.
It is very upsetting to read this stuff, and I should not have ventured in here I guess. But, because of it I know I could not ever return to a male therapist. They would likely assume I primped for my psychiatrist and started the whole thing, when is so far from the truth. I was lucky if I washed my hair. I guess my shrink’s standards were quite low.
I hope psychiatrists and therapists do realize that there are mental health professionals out there who start it, and that it’s not always the patient.
I certainly wasn’t implying, Bonnie, that you should feel any responsibility for what has transpired here. I think that you should be very gentle with yourself right now.
Putting myself in the therapist’s position I can understand, though, why he panicked and terminated. I can’t imagine how frightening it must be having a client cross boundaries and know that it could potentially be turned against you. It would have been more professional to phone and explain, I agree. I think there is a difference, though, between unprofessional and unethical.
I have been attempting to offer an objective perspective. It was never meant to be judgmental in any way.
I’m really sorry for what has happened here with you, Bonnie. How you proceed is your decision. I hope that you feel better.
I can’t believe words as “frightening” and “threatening” are being used here. Poor little T. I’m not suggesting that Bonnie must receive “support, support and more support” here either. I kind of find it funny she is insisting on support all the time without taking much responsibility for her own actions. It is Allison’s posts I found to be frightening. This situation must be much more common then I thought.
I have not stopped by here either for what seems like ages but today I read many comments and I started with Skills. So I am going to respond to, and speak to skills for the purpose of staying focused, but this comment is for everyone to hear.
Skills, you are very right in practically everything you are saying, but your words are not really helpful to these women because you don’t understand them.
I am thinking of one of these women coming to you for treatment and I am thinking one primary thought: “How would you help them?” What do you have to offer these women when they get to the bitter end, and yes, it will become a bitter end for many, like Alison, but I am only saying your name, Alison, because I read all your comments and my memory sucks with names.
You say you live in torture, and to some who do not understand they may take your statement for one of exaggeration, or words spoken lightly. many readers won’t like you and feel that you are arrogant and manipulative, and playing games, and stuff like that, because some of this you are feeling yourself you are doing. You must hold on to control and understandably.
So it has been 5-6 years and that is long, but it may turn into 20 years and that is way too long.
Nobody here will have to envy their therapist’s wife, believe me, you are lucky not to be marries to him.
You know Allison what feels like the very worst of experiences you are revealing, and rather without much feelings one way or the other? The fact that your dude ignored you at the conference, that must have really, really hurt.
Right now, and I listened to all you said about rather being tortured with him than not tortured without him; i understand all of these feelings because I have been there. And nobody can help you so that is why you are not even asking for help because there is absolutely nothing you can do about this, right? You have no choice about leaving this relationship, you are hooked.
But I can also tell you that you will not be cured until you go through what will be even more horrible and which is when your therapist dumps you and he will. not because he doesn’t love you and all that but because of it. He is human; he is just a man, if one kind of a man. In a way, Alison, he is feeling not that differently from the way you are feeling, and he is also trying to hold on control and that is the punishing , torturing elwment of the push and pull.
This is torture, Alison, you are not sick you are tortured and I would be too. You are not as much in control as you think you are, because you were not primarily abused in your childhood but rather neglected, and it is that neglect that is causing your and your t’s behavior and feelings. We can all survive abuse but it’s a lot harder to survive neglect.
And when this ends, and it will, you know what will be the worst part? The fact that you wasted years of your life in that office and in one moment it’s over and forgotten and you are out of his life and forgotten, if not literally, but yet true. it could become twenty years thrown down the tubes and the best lesson learned, and that is actually a very good thing, and it will also come as a great relief, is that your life will be so much better without him and that you will see through all of this, and be free, a lot more than now.
last, Skills, not one of these women will ever report their therapist, and nothing is really missed anyway buy not doing that, because the BME is a waste of life generally and they will do nothing.
But more so, none of these patients would ever do so, because if they felt so they would long be gone.
KATRIN (not edited)
Hi,I am at a loss as to what to write, I am however sorry to read about these issues. It would be great to receive some professional input to the site. xK
(((Katrin))) I see that you do understand. THe not saying hello to me at convention……that is one of the t’s rules/regulations, etc….You aren’t supposed to acknowledge a client unless they say hello first…but I think it is ridiculous, especially since he knew I would have liked him to say hello. He follows some guidelines and not others.
I will be the one to say goodbye when I am ready. I don’t feel like I have wasted any time at all. I am busy with life (school, work, etc., etc) THe research I did on therapist/client relationships is staggering.
Transference/countertransferece: Fancy words for feelings, that is all. Transference/countertransference is present in ALL relationships; they are simply feelings (conscious and unconscious) that we feel for others….unless it is the classic (Freudian) trans/counter, where someone reminds us of someone in our past, and we react to them the way we would react to that person in the past.
As for the “power differential”—there are power differentials (again) in many other relationships; my t considers me a “colleague”—I couldn’t stop, or do a thing in falling in love with him.
An excellent book: Sex in the Forbidden Zone by Peter Rutter.
Therapists need to be trained in that a client (or themselves) may feel a strong attraction, and be educated in how to deal with it (when they aren’t), clients (like Bonnie) get terribly hurt.
I think the much bigger part, at least with me, is non sexual. I have fallen in love with even women therapists, and I shudder thinking back that I would have, had he asked, slept with this ugly, old and senile therapist, my first one,I did become his chauffeur, I would enter the double sessions he worked but then sometimes he would start holding me and sobbing, and then afterwards ask to switch over to me, but which I could not do, and so i would leave and he would charge me $200 and I pay it.
He would ask me to visit him when he was in the hospital, tell me to get him a deli sandwhich across the street and which was ‘slum city’. The he walk infront of me with his gown open in the back with bare butt, and I again had to pay $200. When I went to Europe for the summer he followed me, and when he became more sickly he asked me to move in with him asn be his nurse and caretaker and he would treat me at a reduced price.
Finally, I ran as far as I could from east to west, but he would still call me in Oregon and ge got the number knowing my name not because I gace him the phone number. And he also asked me to go to kunch with him all the time so he would be less bored. (He paid) I gave him massages, he answered every phone call and this sometimes took 40 minutes, and when I was in deep thought talking, I look up and he was totally asleep and snoring loudly. When he woke up because he heard me leave he would yell at me that if I was not so boring he would not do it.
And I stayed! I paid cash!
Katrin,
That is the craziest story I have every heard..I am at a loss for words..I haven’t a clue how something like that could happen and makes little sense to me..I hope you are okay now.
I just did not know any better but if another person had told me this story, I would know better and feel like you.
Dependence, a mixture of love and hate, and the hate was first and I should have never come back after the first session. I told him that I was in severe distress and crisis because I had been using cocaine and it was killing me.
(this was 25 years ago) To this he responded that he always had wanted to try this but that his cardiologist did not think it was good for his heart….on and on.
One time my german mother was visiting, and she had lived through the war in berlin as a teenager. The t was jewish. he really wanted to meet with me and my mother together. my mother was horrified as she hates psychologists/psychiatrists and she has good cause from experience for this.
So we go the double session and my name never came up once. The guy spent 1.6 hours interrogating my poor mother about the Nazis and talking about all his own experiences during his time of the war in Germany where he was an army psychiatrist. my mother was practically in tears.
I don’t believe that a therapist’s role in therapy gives a client the license to do whatever they want. Transference or no transference, there comes a point where one must take responsibility for their actions… at least in part.
My guess is that the therapist felt it was safest for both he and the client to terminate in this case. And, yes, I can honestly imagine it being scary for a therapist when a client makes a move on them.
I’ve been there with this. I’ve been out of therapy for nearly a year and still love my therapist. It is more of a familial type of love than romantic, but I have also experienced those types of feelings in this. Though very difficult at times, it has been a very positive experience for me. I was fortunate enough to have a T who was 100% professional with me at all times.
I want to apologize for anything that I’ve said that might have upset anyone. It was certainly not intentional.
I had a few more thoughts.
Usually when one reacts as strongly as I did here with this, it’s a sign that there is something personal about it that has to do with that person. So I’m guessing that something about what happened here resonates deeper within me. Perhaps it is in my personal belief that one should be held accountable for one’s own actions. Or maybe I was thinking of the sweetness behind my own feelings for my former therapist, I don’t know…But really my reaction here likely has to do with me more than this specific situation. I wasn’t in the room with Bonnie or her therapist, so I couldn’t really know exactly what took place.
Bonnie, I apologize, and I do really hope that you find peace in your heart with this.
Katrin,
I didn’t think it could get any worse. Clearly, the man was a nut. Was he actually a pshyciatrist with a legit license? Why in God’s name did you not report any of this? I imagine 25 yrs ago things were different, this is probably why. How did you find this crazy person? I find your story intriguing only because I have never heard of such a thing..I just assume psychiatrists actually know what they are doing..it never even occured to me that one could be a nut job…wow..
Update:
I have talked to 3 different councelors in these last past days, 2 pastors, several friends, and of course this blog. I have had many different and interesting points of views. Interesting to find, the 3 therapist I talked to in seperate occassions, all in unison with my “t” being unprofessional and crossing boundaries. Anyhow, I have been able to register as much opinions and collected my emotions, and now I can think more clearly. I know I was definately reacting to my pain. I have for the first time since highschool, had serious suicidal thoughts. I even considered buying a gun to shoot myself. Dont worry, IM NOT GOING TO KILL MYSELF. 🙂 My kids keep me going. I wasn’t in therapy for depression or anxiety or bipolar, but if I had suicidal thoughts, I wonder if my “t” treated one of his clients that suffered from depression or another mental disorder, how they would take it. That worries me.
I have decided that I will let things go. I think he is going through a very bad time in his life right now and that is why he is treating me so bad. Now when I say he is treating me bad, people please PAY ATTENTION, I do not mean he is treating me bad because he didn’t recieve my come on. but because of how he terminated me and wouldn’t even let me leave him a measage, and because how he is treating me in public. But I forgive him. I pray he comes to his senses and one day he will look back and say, “hmmm, I really did this one wrong.”
I’m still confused as to if I am making the right decision. Does someone who takes over people’s sessions with their own problems have the right to still be a therapist? Or was I the only lucky one (sarcasm). I remember once he asked me how my week was and I told him about everything that was going wrong that week (which was a lot) and he retorted with a list of his own problems and said, “…..so dont complain.” Once I told him about my troubled childhood and he snorted with, “You want to hear my childhood…it was worse.” Was this a competition?
He once was telling me about his marital problems and when I finally gave him advice (which was the only time), he was picking at his fingers the whole time and made them bleed. I told him to please stop doing that because it is making me nervous and he said, “Yeah, if you stop being an ass.”
Yes, he was unethical, but he was not “abusing” me. I guess he’s allowed to make mistakes. I’ll tell you one thing though. I will NEVER see a therapist again as long as I live. I was told by my emergency nurse friend that he can point out all the therapists because they are the ones with all the problems. its like the blind leading the blind.
So, am i doing the right thing by not reporting his behavior? I hope so.
Will he do this to someone else? I hope not.
Katrin,
Wow! that is a crazy story. It’s kinda scary how much power these therapists have over us, and how some abuse it. Sorry you had to deal with that.
Beth,
Thank you. I am finding peace in my heart. I guess my heart is big enough for pain and peace.
Poo,
“Poor little “T””? Are you kidding me?! It’s amusing how you were asking me advice on how to corner your poor little “t” so you can kiss him. I wonder how you would have felt if he threw you out like a used whore.
Clair,
I am sorry to hear about what happened with you and your “T”. I think I wouldn’t worry if people think you seduced him or not. Even if you did (which you clearly did not), you are the patient, you’re allowed to be nutty if you want to (which you clearly where not). He is the one that is responsible for his actions. And trust me, it is the women more then the men that are judgmental.
How long ago did this happen and when did it all end? or has it ended?
I think we all have so much more in common here, than we are different. It’s really not a matter of trying to find out who is the sickest but a matter of just how vulnerable we are, and so alone. if any of this was happening to someone else, I would find it so hard to believe that I am also that person. We have to really have empathy and compassion with us, ourselves, for this, and understanding. That is what helps, only.
Bonnie,
Your T sounded very unethical. They are taught to not discuss anything personal. He soundes as if he took your time to disucss his own issues. That in itself is wrong.
I really hope this T (tool) really thinks about what happens. I don’t know if you should give up on it. The ethics board would be very interested in his behavior. He is unprofessional and that was terrible about how he terminated. I’m so sorry you have to go through this. Please take care of yourself.
Jinx’d,
Thank you for your support. As unethical as he was, I cant help to feel sorry for him. He trusted me with all his personal issues. I think it would be cruel of me to use his trust. I know he was wrong. In my heart I still care for him deeply. I will always regret that I put him in a position where he paniced. I truly believe that he was developing feelings and it scared the crap out of him. I just hope that my experience is a lesson to all that it is not worth it.
(((Bonnie))): If he was behaving unprofessionally or unethically, most likely he was and IS still doing it. A therapist is there to hear about YOU. It is okay to occasionally say something personally about themselves if it is relevant to what YOU are saying, and if/and it might help YOU. Sheeshhh…..I read a book (forget the name) but it begins with Freud up to the present day; these t’s were having sex etc….with all kinds of people. Nothing much has changed. How many t’s do you think would self-report? Maybe none? I hope you and whoever else will check out my and my co-author’s website….maybe sharing your story (anonymously) might be a step in healing.
If I wrote what had gone on with my t (no sex) this place would blow up, so I will save it for my chapter in the book. Bonnie and Claire:, I hope you will e-mail me: [email protected]……and anyone else who would like to talk without fear of judgement, etc….Hugs, Alice
P.S. In http://www.psychobabble.com…there was a woman who had an affair for 5 years with her t; it has been a long time since she posted. She had cancer, and I am worried and sad that perhaps she died.
Hi… We are vunerable and human, and although trained, so are “T’s”. lol K ps… I’m hating all the hurt everyone maybe experiencing, take care.
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